Hi - I've just registered even though I've been reading the forum for a couple of years - three weeks ago I upgraded my 2 year old Pop for a 64 plate cult. Touch wood she's doing okay - no problems with hill starts - takes hills much the same as my previous pop ie I need to change down a couple of gears if it's very steep. Infact the hill assist really helps when pulling away on a hill.
I know people wanted to hear if it's all new 500's which is why I felt the need to post. She's done 380 miles and all good so far. I've had a lot of missed calls from fiat customer satisfaction this week tho - I wonder if they are checking?!
My cult was registered on 25.10 if that helps and is a 1.2 69bhp

Florence1972 said:

Hi - I've just registered even though I've been reading the forum for a couple of years - three weeks ago I upgraded my 2 year old Pop for a 64 plate cult.

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Hello and welcome to the forum :wave:.

Glad to hear you're having a positive experience with your new 500.

Interestingly several of the posters who aren't having issues with their Euro6 500 also have the hill holder option.

Coincidence? Maybe something, maybe nothing. Just an observation at this stage.

306maxi said:

If it was my car they'd have it in bits comparing it to a car which was fine, everything from the fueling system, engine, engine ecu, exhaust, induction system, wiring, throttle system and so on would be tested PROPERLY.

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I totally agree with maxi here, I've been comparing everything on my euro 6 Panda with every thing on My 08 500. to see if I can find where the differences are.

I did find something a couple of weeks ago that tied in with something I'd done to the car that's made a difference.

You may remember that I've put an independent air filter on the throttle bypass air intake tube.

I had the air filter box off and Had a proper look at it and low and behold the Spigot where the tube fits on the air filter box was completely flashed over. Also the tube inside the air filter box where it draws from was significantly restricted with flash, hence the reason no air getting to the engine low down, the throttle must have been having to control the tick over. which should normally be completely closed on tick over.

This may explain why no effects have noted on other car models - do they have different air filter boxes? Also the hit and miss effects on the current crop of 500/panda's.

I've mentioned it to Fiat who have asked me to take my car to the local dealer to be checked, Unfortunately I've been abroad so have not had the chance to arrange anything yet.

I would be interested to know if anyone else who thinks they have this problem notes an improvement if they pull the tube off the back of the air filter box and takes the car for a spin. It's the thin tube right at the back not the thick one that goes to the top of the engine cover.

Also only drive the car a short distance on a warm engine, Driving long distances with the pipe disconnected is not a good idea as it could suck dust into the manifold.

Thanks

Chris

muttleysdad said:

I had the air filter box off and Had a proper look at it and low and behold the Spigot where the tube fits on the air filter box was completely flashed over. Also the tube inside the air filter box where it draws from was significantly restricted with flash, hence the reason no air getting to the engine low down, the throttle must have been having to control the tick over. which should normally be completely closed on tick over.

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Any chance you can post some pictures of this please?

By the sounds of it it's the one that's prone to breaking off.

306maxi said:

By the sounds of it it's the one that's prone to breaking off.

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Yeah, it's the flash I wanted to get a look at.

If (and this is highly speculative at this stage) there is a problem with a batch of airboxes and it turns out to have been at least exacerbating the issue, it would explain much and fit in with the pattern of posts we're seeing here.

It's easy enough to simulate the effect of a flashed-over small breather spigot - just put a temporary clamp on the small breather hose. If someone with a Euro6 500 who isn't experiencing the issue could do this & report back, we'd have a better idea about whether this is a significant development, or another red herring.

Equally, folks who are experiencing this issue can simulate the effects of fixing a potentially flashed over spigot by temporarily disconnecting the samll breather hose.

I'd still like to find two Euro6 owners, one who's having problems and one who isn't, and get them to swap cars for a day.

I think the key is for someone with an affected car to get it to you and let you have a look at it......

306maxi said:

I think the key is for someone with an affected car to get it to you and let you have a look at it......

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That offer's been on the table since at least post #212.

So far, no one has taken me up on it.

We've had a further 25 pages of posts and a watchdog report & in reality we don't really know any more now than we did back then. If I were to summarise this issue today, I'd write exactly what I wrote six weeks ago.

Hi, This is my first post on this forum. My daughter picked up her brand new 500 Lounge 1.2 today. I only found this forum on Friday (the day after watchdog) and after watching said program on BBC I player and reading threads on here I was very worried for her safety regarding the performance of the car. We went to the dealers at weekend to take a drive in a brand new 500 1.2 (not her car) ( She never took test drive at time of ordering as she is young and was too excited about getting her first new car). The car drove fine with no problems with hill starts or climbing hills!! On picking up her car tonight it was rush hour and traffic was really heavy and again no problems in nose to tail traffic and hill starts. I don't know how the BBC can broadcast such dangerous rubbish. How much research did they do? What were those graphs the mechanic was looking at?? ( I drive VW and have VCDS and have never seen anything like that on my laptop ). Great little car. She is delighted.

Not all cars are affected, but there is clearly a problem. It is not dangerous rubbish, it's just that your car has not been affected. It doesn't always happen as well, so I would reserve judgement until you have had it a while

The problem is very real for some people, hopefully you are not affected though.

Novo said:

Hi, This is my first post on this forum. My daughter picked up her brand new 500 Lounge 1.2 today. I only found this forum on Friday (the day after watchdog) and after watching said program on BBC I player and reading threads on here I was very worried for her safety regarding the performance of the car. We went to the dealers at weekend to take a drive in a brand new 500 1.2 (not her car) ( She never took test drive at time of ordering as she is young and was too excited about getting her first new car). The car drove fine with no problems with hill starts or climbing hills!! On picking up her car tonight it was rush hour and traffic was really heavy and again no problems in nose to tail traffic and hill starts. I don't know how the BBC can broadcast such dangerous rubbish. How much research did they do? What were those graphs the mechanic was looking at?? ( I drive VW and have VCDS and have never seen anything like that on my laptop ). Great little car. She is delighted.

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Well I have now driven four different 500s with the 1.2 Euro6 engine and they have all been as bad as each other. They all really struggled on hill starts and would only go up if you revved the engine in excess of 3000 revs before releasing the clutch and kept slipping the clutch to keep the revs in this region or else the engine would bog down. I have tested them with the dealer's mechanic and a Fiat technician who confirmed that they all performed this way although he denied it was a defect.

So I for one am delighted that Watchdog made the report and highlighted this issue which clearly affects many cars.

Personally I am of the opinion that all manual 1.2 Eu6 cars are affected but some owners haven't tried out a steep hill start or for some unknown reason they think it is acceptable to drive a small Italian car in the way I have described above.

I have no idea why you would consider the Watchdog report to be 'dangerous'. Unless of course you happened to work for or have shares in FIAT.

Novo said:

Hi, This is my first post on this forum. My daughter picked up her brand new 500 Lounge 1.2 today. I only found this forum on Friday (the day after watchdog) and after watching said program on BBC I player and reading threads on here I was very worried for her safety regarding the performance of the car. We went to the dealers at weekend to take a drive in a brand new 500 1.2 (not her car) ( She never took test drive at time of ordering as she is young and was too excited about getting her first new car). The car drove fine with no problems with hill starts or climbing hills!! On picking up her car tonight it was rush hour and traffic was really heavy and again no problems in nose to tail traffic and hill starts.

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MY OH will be picking up her new 1.2 Lounge, albeit a Dualogic, later this week or early next week. Will reoprt back when I am given the chance to put it through it's paces.

Palma500s said:

Well I have now driven four different 500s with the 1.2 Euro6 engine and they have all been as bad as each other. They all really struggled on hill starts and would only go up if you revved the engine in excess of 3000 revs before releasing the clutch and kept slipping the clutch to keep the revs in this region or else the engine would bog down. I have tested them with the dealer's mechanic and a Fiat technician who confirmed that they all performed this way although he denied it was a defect.

So I for one am delighted that Watchdog made the report and highlighted this issue which clearly affects many cars.

Personally I am of the opinion that all 1.2 Eu6 cars are affected but some owners haven't tried out a steep hill start or for some unknown reason they think it is acceptable to drive a small Italian car in the way I have described above.

I have no idea why you would consider the Watchdog report to be 'dangerous'. Unless of course you happened to work for or have shares in FIAT.

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some people are 'conned' by fiat more easily than others = ).
but this does reinforce the fact; one must test drive the exact as close as spec to their car as possible before buying it.
I was 'conned' into buying a dualogic box thinking that it was a good system for my style of driving. I was wrong.

Palma500s said:

Well I have now driven four different 500s with the 1.2 Euro6 engine and they have all been as bad as each other. They all really struggled on hill starts and would only go up if you revved the engine in excess of 3000 revs before releasing the clutch and kept slipping the clutch to keep the revs in this region or else the engine would bog down. I have tested them with the dealer's mechanic and a Fiat technician who confirmed that they all performed this way although he denied it was a defect.

So I for one am delighted that Watchdog made the report and highlighted this issue which clearly affects many cars.

Personally I am of the opinion that all manual 1.2 Eu6 cars are affected but some owners haven't tried out a steep hill start or for some unknown reason they think it is acceptable to drive a small Italian car in the way I have described above.

I have no idea why you would consider the Watchdog report to be 'dangerous'. Unless of course you happened to work for or have shares in FIAT.

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I'm of the opinion that you don't want to accept the opinions of others and accept that just possibly this only affects some new 1.2's and not all new 1.2's.

306maxi said:

I'm of the opinion that you don't want to accept the opinions of others and accept that just possibly this only affects some new 1.2's and not all new 1.2's.

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what difference? this problem shouldnt exist in the first place.

ahmett said:

what difference? this problem shouldnt exist in the first place.

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What difference? The relevance is massive and obvious......

Of course the problem shouldn't exist in the first place but that's neither here nor there.

306maxi said:

I'm of the opinion that you don't want to accept the opinions of others and accept that just possibly this only affects some new 1.2's and not all new 1.2's.

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I am happy to see that you now at least recognise that a problem exists. It wasn't so very long ago that you brushed aside the very notion that there was an issue at all.
At this rate I suspect you could be in full agreement with me by Christmas.

I think Maxi is right, the issue is variable across the range. some have it worse than others. Some don't have it at all.

My Panda has never had any issue going up hill or hill starting, and I have a steep drive off my garden, getting up it has never posed a problem, I drive up it on tick over most days, also we've taken the car on holiday in the Dales where there have been some quite monumental hills, and again no problems.
Our car suffered from the almost stall bump when pulling off at junctions and roundabouts followed by the kangarooing along as you try and compensate with the throttle, So much so my partner actually commented on feeling like a learner driver again.
I've since reduced this to an acceptable level, It bogs down no worse than my 500 or Punto Evo when pulling off now.

I've accepted the fact that the engine mapping now results in less torque low down and more higher up the revs and this isn't going to change any time soon, But I do think this has made the engine very sensitive, and if small things on the engine aren't quite right, this has a major knock on effect to the drivability to the car.

I stated in the past and I'll state it again here for the record, the biggest improvement came from changing the spark plugs. the power delivery comes in a lot lower with the new plugs - just over the 2000 rpm mark

The air intake mod seemed to smooth out the bogging down problem.

Anyone wants to dive my car - feel free to contact me.


Cheers

Chris

Palma500s said:

I am happy to see that you now at least recognise that a problem exists. It wasn't so very long ago that you brushed aside the very notion that there was an issue at all.
At this rate I suspect you could be in full agreement with me by Christmas.

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I've agreed for ages that there's a problem, open your eyes.....

306maxi said:

I've agreed for ages that there's a problem, open your eyes.....

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I do apologise. I must have misunderstood this response that you gave to David Bliss when he tried to share his experiences with his Eu6 1.2 Panda:

''Zzzzzzzzzzzzz please stop spamming everyone's threads and making everyone think they've got a problem.''

I will try to keep my eyes open in the future and not take what you say too literally.