Re: BBC1 Watchdog NOW!! 1.2 hill issues

My friend has this car (she is a member here so must have seen the thread) she has complained to me it seems a bit slow, but I just told her she doesn't know how to drive an 8v Italian car, e.g just rev the F out of it

It seems there is actually a fault with the car but hopefully a software will fix it.

Remember the watchdog thing was probably filmed ages ago too. My friends was registered in July 2014 though so maybe the problem has been fixed (not read the main thread on it).

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

JTD_Liam said:

I had a reply from Fiat to my email (detailed further up this thread) yesterday. Despite me clearly saying I don't own one of these cars but was enquiring on behalf of other owners, their response was as follows:


Subject: Fiat Engine

Dear Mr Morley,

Thank you for contacting Fiat Group Automobiles UK.

In order to enable us to satisfactorily assist you as soon as possible we would like to ask you to be so kind to forward the following additional information:

- Your telephone contact(s) and address;
- Your vehicle's chassis number (or VIN) and registration number;
- Its current mileage;
- The name of the dealership that you contacted regarding this issue;
- Do you authorise me to send the dealership your personal data and your feedback, in order to guarantee a better and faster management of your request?

We look forward to hearing from you; you are welcome to reply to the present e-mail or to contact our Customer Relations team on 00800 3428 0000 choosing option number 3, from Monday to Friday between 9:00 and 18:00.

Yours sincerely,


Needless to say I wasn't impressed, so responded this morning re-iterating my original point, but it looks like it's too late. Watchdog have them on their radar. Game over Fiat. Serves them right for fobbing people off. This should've been treated seriously months ago.

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I never received a reply to the email I sent following Fiats generic response, so this morning, when I was feeling particularly hacked-off with various things, I thought I'd pen them a follow up:


Still awaiting a response to my email below.

I also note you have not posted any advice to the tens of customers who are experiencing issues with their cars as described here https://www.fiatforum.com/500/339820-new-1-2-500-throttle-response.html

Probably no point in bothering to reply now, as a much wider audience will be reached by this evenings BBC Watchdog programme, which will feature the Fiat 500 and the issues described in the above link.

You need to learn to look after your customers - I'm sure plenty of people, myself included, could show you how - and give you a damn good kick up the arse in the process.

Seriously unimpressed!

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Needless to say that the above didn't get a response either, but after the woeful effort they made regarding Watchdog I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised they even replied to my first email. Many companies send in a representative to the Watchdog studio, or write a massive apology statement. Fiat just blamed the customers - stunning! They're clearly either extremely clueless as to the damage this will do them, or just a pure disgrace.

My Parents have a 500, thankfully a TwinAir, and are very keen to see the program. They were considering replacing their 2012 500 with a new one in the new year, but since the original purchase was much to do with my recommendation, I might suggest they look elsewhere.

I'd suggest many others do the same, as Fiat's behaviour has been abominable.

Re: BBC1 Watchdog NOW!! 1.2 hill issues

We don't have a television, and not had one for many years.

Because of this strange affair of the 2014 1.2 Fiat 500, I decided to watch it on BBC iPlayer on my laptop. I don't think I've seen Watchdog since Lynne Faulds Wood was the presenter.

What a childish, sensationalising, cinematic, facile programme it is!
No wonder we don't have a telly.

Any road up, there's obviously a problem though the "forensic mechanic" didn't know what it was. and Fiat aren't any better either.

Hopefully someone will sort this out and maybe the silly Watchdog programme might stir some interest.

Regards,
Mick

Re: BBC1 Watchdog NOW!! 1.2 hill issues

Certainly the Watchdog report was facile and the woman driving the car was unable to convey the problem, I didn't see her changing down and trying to rev the engine for example. I was left wondering what it was all about, and there was hardly a broad cross section of buyers complaining.

As for the forensic mechanic, well, hardly forensic when his conclusion was that it was "probably" a software problem.

Fiat will probably introduce a software fix and slip it in unnoticed.

Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

They've obviously done some hocus pocus to squeeze the car in to Euro 6 compliance. A simple remap or recall to reverse any mechanical changes would on the surface seem the way to go but no doubt that would then render the cars non Euro 6 compliant leaving Fiat in a bit of a bind. I suspect this explains why Fiat are kicking to touch, well, more like an own goal in reality! They will undoubtedly lose sales over last nights exposure even if it was lame. The shame is that it will also put potential new customers off the TA & MJ as people will associate the issue with the model & brand as opposed to just the 1.2.

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

JTD_Liam said:

Needless to say that the above didn't get a response either.

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Give them chance! They don't work 24 hours, and will likely have a deluge of emails to respond to now

Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

I watched Watchdog with interest as the Mrs has a '14 plate 1.2 Panda Lounge (which replaced her '07 Active).

It does appear to respond very similarly to the 500's with the same engine, unsurpisingly, but no where near as bad as that Red one in the show going up that hill.
Living in South London, I know that road and do travel up it, without that sort of response.

I do honestly believe this 1.2 engine has been "knobbled" to pass whatever emission standard is now current.
I also believe it's an industry problem, emissions and mpg tests are now altering in an attempt to stop manufacturers pulling "fast ones" with their tests and figures or as it's known, "Cycle Beating".

I remember something similar a few years back with motorcycles.
Noise became a big issue, so laws came from Brussels to sort it out.
New bike were sold with big performance "holes" all around the 40 kph mark where the bikes spluttered (quitely) and silencers had to be E marked.
Unsurprisingly, the noise driveby test was performed at 40 kph!

It seems a no brainer that Fiat have fiddled, and I'm speculating it's a final fiddle to the ageing (but usually great) 1.2 (no doubt Fiat Powertrain are funding new technologies like Multiair) to cover serveral areas.

One will be the New Euro Driving Cycle tests, but to met and report these against the out going models (They can't really report the new is worse than the old), something rather detrimental has altered with the engine management.

Fiats stubborn stance on the subject could be due to the fact they know it's the 1.2's final fling and all's been done to met regulations, there's just nothing to do without going back and selling Euro 5 spec cars.

Although it's not really the answer everyone's waiting for, I think the only realistic solution have already been mentioned.
It is as with the bikes a few years ago, an independant remap.

Watchdog - Fiat 500 (2014, 1.2 model)

I have just contacted my dealership following the Watchdog programme last night.

Until the programme, I had not needed to drive up a hill and so I was very concerned and took my car out. Sadly, their report is true. The new 2014 1.2 Fiat 500 cannot cope with hill starts both in first gear and especially in reverse. The only way we could get it to move was to burn the clutch and over-rev.

I hope that I get some sensible response from the dealership - I only bought the car in September and it has roughly 580 miles on the clock. Very young car. It definitely shouldn't feel unsafe to drive. I've never known a car lack so much power trying to get up a hill. Crazy.

Let me know if you share this situation and what Fiat have said. The programme surmised it could be a direct result of the extremely low emissions.

According to Wiki, Euro6 is the same as Euro5 for petrol passenger vehicles.
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards[/ame]

Wot's goin' on?
Mick.

Mick F said:

According to Wiki, Euro6 is the same as Euro5 for petrol passenger vehicles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

Wot's goin' on?
Mick.

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My understanding is that whilst the headline limits may be the same, the test procedures are different, as are the specific conditions under which these limits must be met.

This isn't just Fiat - many petrol cars which meet Euro 5 homologation rules seem to need modification to get the Euro 6 ticket.

IMO the whole testing process is a joke; the folks doing the testing are way smarter than the bureaucrats who make the rules and pull every stroke in the book to get the result they want.

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...ufacturers-manipulating-fuel-efficiency-tests

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/road-cars/opinions/co2-emissions-the-truth/

Well, I also saw Watchdog last night and saw the feature about the 500.

I agree with some of the other points that the "test" on the road in London did seem a bit odd. I mean, it looked like the car could barely be driven at all, which seems a hundred times worse than some of the comments on here.

However, Fiat's overall response at the end was totally unacceptable. They are simply brushing this under the carpet and pretending nothing is happening.

Perhaps they just hope it will all go away?

Haha, just as I was about to log off this thread, I see there are 5 registered users and 22 guests!

This is a popular one eh...

Re: Watchdog - Fiat 500 (2014, 1.2 model)

I have heard back from the dealership. They have played down the Watchdog report telling me how successfully they have sold the same model to much hillier areas in Somerset with no-one coming back to them with any such issue. They've said it continues to be their most popular model and they expect it to be for years to come. They're happy to price up a TwinAir or Diesel 1.3 model for me. So essentially they didn't want to hear it. I've checked my lease agreement; if I want to get out now, it's nearly £8k to do so. Feeling trapped, unsupported and REALLY let down

Re: BBC1 Watchdog NOW!! 1.2 hill issues

Nope! I have a September 2014 model and it's very sluggish and awful on hills - I tried reversing mine up an incline last night; it wouldn't go without me revving the nuts off it and burning the clutch - see my thread for the dealership response. Shocking.

I've read this post with interest. I did own a Grande Punto, and during its time of having numerous repairs I have had 1.2 Panda and 500 courtesy cars. All ran well and were sprightly, all would of been pre Euro 6.

Clearly Fiat have a problem with making this engine Euro 6 compliant. This many responses is not because of bad driving but because of the engine.

Fiat's response to the issue is appalling blaming its customers, and is typical of Fiat customer service who I have battled with previously.

Fiat seem to of forgotten quite a few important things here.

Brand loyalty. A lot of people have an attachment to the brand and like the unique Italian connection of the cars and buy the vehicles not because they are better than the competition but the brand.

A few years back Fiat were in a very bad place nearly going under, the cars that rescued Fiat was the 500 and the Panda. Finally they were competitive cars compared to the rest of the range.

These customers need looking after and thanked for keeping the brand alive not telling they can not drive.

People are starting to get fed up now with Fiats outdated poor approach to customers, on top of cars that are still questionable for reliability and slipped in competitiveness. Customers are moving away and taking their business elsewhere, and people who are new to the brand owning their first Fiat are not going to return again!

I had my first and last Fiat with my Grande and moved on and probably won't look back neither.

Re: Watchdog - Fiat 500 (2014, 1.2 model)

ab4444 said:

I've checked my lease agreement; if I want to get out now, it's nearly £8k to do so. Feeling trapped, unsupported and REALLY let down

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If it were me I'd go to an aftermarket tuning company and get a bespoke remap (assuming the Fiat ECU is remappable), but you could even go for standalone aftermarket ECU for a lot less than 8K.

Its flat where I live,its setting off from junctions and on roundabouts thats the problem.The engine either surges or does not respond.The engine is useless below 2000rpm.

Need to watch it again, but did I hear right that Fiat called the problem a "characteristic " ? This seems to be their answer for everything that is ever wrong with a Fiat, not the they've ever done something wrong. No it's got a mind of it's own and develops all sorts of little charming"characteristics".
Their response seemed to be **** you, it's all good.

Right. I need as much overview technical data from this thread condensed into one reply post to me please. I need to work out how I am going to move forward on this very carefully and I want to see whether I have a case for trying to prove that this vehicle is 'faulty'.

As yet I have not had any acknowledgement from Fiat that there is anything wrong with the car (no surprises there) and certainly no offers of bringing the car in to assess it, etc.

If anyone has a concise overview of this issue to give me please post it - I think I'm going to need all the help I can get. I won't be fobbed off like this - and to the individual who posted that individuals should test drive their cars fully; I hope you're happy being so self-righteous. People don't expect to have brand new cars fail the very basics of drivability.