Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

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Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Not entirely important, but...

Was on a train yesterday with the children, and as we were about to get off, the chap waiting patiently behind my son to jump off onto the platform was none other than "Mr Stig", Ben Collins (who of course featured in the Watchdog report on the 500).

If I wasn't concentrating so hard on making sure my little boy didn't fall onto the line, I'd have asked him about how much of a dog that car was that he had to try and drive on the report!:D
 
Got rid at last.Wont be bothering FIAT again.Collect new MINI Cooper next week, lucky it was in stock so dont need to wait.I just hope VAG owners get better support regarding the current issue than FIAT did with this.To anyone thinking of buying the two cars dont bother with a 500 the MINI is different class,including the dealer experience.
 
Got rid at last.Wont be bothering FIAT again.Collect new MINI Cooper next week, lucky it was in stock so dont need to wait.I just hope VAG owners get better support regarding the current issue than FIAT did with this.To anyone thinking of buying the two cars dont bother with a 500 the MINI is different class,including the dealer experience.

I think you have done the right thing, i have had bad cars in the past and sometimes the best option is to get rid.

The Minis are great high quality cars, i am sure you will love it (y)
 
But sort of back on topic, if only because i have to go to bed soon (being a internet warrior is very time consuming) i still think auditt did the right thing.
 
This has gone way off topic. As I've said before, I believe it's important to keep this thread to specific matters affecting the Euro6 1.2 engine.

Whilst banter is generally encouraged and the associated drift usually tolerated and even welcomed, in this case, I think the issue is sufficiently important to the affected owners that we need to keep on-topic. Consequently, I've cleaned the thread and moved all the recent off-topic posts here.

I've called the new thread "How does the 500 stack up to the competition". If you can think of a better name for it, I'll change it.

Please continue the banter in the new thread. Any further off topic posts will be deleted without being moved across.

Discussion of the Euro6 1.2 engine continues in this thread.
 
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Got rid at last.Wont be bothering FIAT again.Collect new MINI Cooper next week, lucky it was in stock so dont need to wait.I just hope VAG owners get better support regarding the current issue than FIAT did with this.To anyone thinking of buying the two cars dont bother with a 500 the MINI is different class,including the dealer experience.

Glad you have found a resolution of sorts, and enjoy the new car.

Before you go, could you please say to what extent you feel the issues with the Euro6 1.2 engine have been resolved?
 
I dont think it was ever resolved,even after the "update" it was still flat under 2000rpm.The increase in revs whilst bringing up the clutch was still an issue and cant have been doing the clutch any good.I think I just got used to it.Its
mainly the wifes car but I also drive it and I had to re-adjust my throttle/clutch control when I got back in my own car.
 
Daughter1 bought a 1.2 only a few days ago.
March 2014 with 7,000miles on the clock.

As far as I know, she's very happy with it, but as yet I have no idea how she's getting on with it or if it has any problems as per this thread.

I have yet to ascertain how it goes up the hills etc, and hopefully I'll get back to this if/when I know something one way or another.

Regards,
Mick.
 
That's certainly quite the change!

Hope you didn't take too much of a hit on the 500.

Sorry, I've been involved in this thread but my Fiat is/was a Panda. But I bought it on a PCP, so in essence I've swapped monthly payments as the Panda went for what was owed on it.

Overall, I don't have the time or inclination to do what abb4 did (fair play to her) I just got totally p'd off with the situation and decided to vote with my feet.

The Suzuki is not as nice in many ways, but it has it's own charms and will do well enough as my "winter" runabout and 2nd car.
 
We are finally booked in (for up to a week) for our dealer to investigate our issues, with - we are promised - the help of the Fiat technical team. Not holding our breath, but will be given equivalent courtesy car to compare with ours. Will post an update as and when....
 
I have just bought a 1.2 65 plate punto with 25 miles on the clock, not sure if the engine is the same but seem to have a watered down version of the same issue. Doesn't bother me too much as my old 56 1.4 dualogic was far worse due to the dodgy gearbox (new car is a manual!). It doesn't seem as bad as some have described but definitely is tangible. Hopefully it will loosen up with age but I am otherwise in love with the car! :)
 
I have just bought a 1.2 65 plate punto with 25 miles on the clock, not sure if the engine is the same but seem to have a watered down version of the same issue.

The 1.2 was at its most driveable in Euro4 form; since then, ever tightening emissions standards have chipped away at the engine's bottom end torque & smoothness.

Sadly I think with any car these days, even if it's perfectly driveable when you first buy it, you may be only one software update from issues such as this. I'd certainly be apprehensive right now if I were taking any VAG vehicle anywhere near a franchised dealer.

The engine will loosen up considerably as it runs in, which can only help, though I don't think the latest 1.2's will ever have the flexibility, smooth power delivery and economy of their ancestors.
 
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Now if I had only seen this thread a month ago things would be so different. Traded my Suzuki Alto in for a 15 plate Panda 1.2 with 10 miles on clock ( it was registered in March 2015), last month.

I had noticed the flat spot with the car and have never done so many wheel spins in my life pulling away from junctions.

On Monday dropped my wife and friend in town. Stopped at traffic lights then turned right to go a hill, not too steep. Was in 2nd but had to go down to 1st and even then it was struggling. I am tempted to take it near a hill a try a hill start, but have little confidence this will make it.

So what is best course of action, is it ring the dealer first or ring Fiat CS.

I paid for car by credit card would this give me some assistance

Any advice much appreciated.
 
Now if I had only seen this thread a month ago things would be so different. Traded my Suzuki Alto in for a 15 plate Panda 1.2 with 10 miles on clock ( it was registered in March 2015), last month.

I had noticed the flat spot with the car and have never done so many wheel spins in my life pulling away from junctions.

Condolences. You certainly aren't the first person to have got one of the 'problem' cars, and I very much doubt you'll be the last.

Strictly speaking this should be in the Panda forum, but I'm happy to run with it here in the 500 section as the issue seems to affect both cars equally and this is the definitive thread on the subject.

Perhaps surprisingly, we still don't know exactly why some cars seem to be more affected by this issue than others, nor do we know why some folks have been offered a software update, whilst others haven't. Also the effectiveness of the software update is itself highly variable; some folks saying it's transformed the car, and others saying the issue is still there.

With one or two notable exceptions when the issue was first being reported, Fiat have strongly resisted all attempts at rejection by buyers of affected vehicles and noone has, as yet, had the bottle to take it all the way to the wire and take a supplying dealer to Court.

The official line now seems to be that "this is a characteristic of the car and you'll just have to live with it".

Since first owner buyers have pretty much overwhelmingly been refused rejection, I'd say your chances of getting Fiat or the dealer to take a pre-reg car back willingly are astonishingly small. As you've effectively bought a used car, I think you'll have a very hard time putting together a strong enough case to legally reject; the best that you can hope for is to get a software update that goes at least some way toward sorting out the problem. I don't think the fact you paid by credit card will make any difference as the card issuer will likely follow the official Fiat line and if pressed, they will simply get the car tested and get an independent engineer's report that it is performing correctly as per the manufacturer's specification. They'd also be within their rights to charge you for the engineer's inspection and report, and if you go to Court and lose, you'll have their legal costs to pay as well.

Sorry to sound so negative, but it really is a case of 'buyer beware' with these cars and if you can't get a software update and can't live with the car, pragmatically you'd probably do better to cut your losses and trade it in. You most definitely won't be the first person who has done that.
 
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We have posted on this issue before. It is a case of heads they win and tails you loose. The only person I know of who got her car replaced was Amy, she fought tooth and nail with the help of her finance company who had loaned the money for the car.
We got an independent engineer's report on our Panda which basically said the engine was at fault, we also got a rolling road test that showed the same characteristics as the one that Watchdog got for the 500. The car went back to the dealer several times and we were informed that it performed within their parameters. In our view the problem made the car dangerous to drive as it was unpredictable. I have been rebuilding engines for many years and aim to achieve reliability to aviation and marine standards and the 2014 Pandas 1.2 wouldn't get a pass.
This car became too much of a worry and was affecting my health so we traded it in and purchased a Ford Fiesta, which is a breath of fresh air. At least the Ford dealer is someone human!
 
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I've been following this thread since I got a new Fiat 500 1.2 POP in September 2015, learning about the problem that afflicted my car. Now I think I have some news for you guys. There appears to be a new software that "fixes" the issue!

My car has been back to the dealership 5 times, and as a result I went ahead and got a new car in the meantime because my time is valuable right now. I don't have the patience for a car that's acting up. However, on Monday I dropped the car in and was told that I wouldn't get it back until it was fixed. Got a call this morning to tell me that the car has been fixed. There was a software update that the dealership only became aware of yesterday that supposedly solves the issue. I haven't driven it yet, but I'll report back here as soon as I do. I'm sure there are plenty of people here that would be delighted for a fix.

Honestly I don't know what to expect. Being a realist I think that the car will either not be fixed at all, or have the EU5 ECU stuck back in there. Will keep you posted!
 
I've been following this thread since I got a new Fiat 500 1.2 POP in September 2015, learning about the problem that afflicted my car. Now I think I have some news for you guys. There appears to be a new software that "fixes" the issue!

My car has been back to the dealership 5 times, and as a result I went ahead and got a new car in the meantime because my time is valuable right now. I don't have the patience for a car that's acting up. However, on Monday I dropped the car in and was told that I wouldn't get it back until it was fixed. Got a call this morning to tell me that the car has been fixed. There was a software update that the dealership only became aware of yesterday that supposedly solves the issue. I haven't driven it yet, but I'll report back here as soon as I do. I'm sure there are plenty of people here that would be delighted for a fix.

Honestly I don't know what to expect. Being a realist I think that the car will either not be fixed at all, or have the EU5 ECU stuck back in there. Will keep you posted!

I hope your car is fixed. It is a very strange situation with the 1.2 engine. I tested a 15 plate 1.2 500 & Panda inJune. Both were fine. My own 15 plate 1.2 500 is also fine – not aspeed machine but I can drive it anywhere and have never had any issues withdead spots or poor throttle response. Ican’t believe that cars produced after mine (mine was in the dealers stock) arestill having this issue. What is Fiatplaying at? If they have a fix why arethey not spelling it out to all dealers to implement it when needed? It does not sit well on the reputation of thedealers or Fiat and I hope that my car continues to behave well (3000 miles withno problems so far).
 
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