I personally don't think that this whole 1.2 fiasco is because Fiat aren't bothered with the 1.2 and are going to get rid soon, the 1.2 has been rumoured to be on borrowed time since we knew that the n/a twinair was coming out and it's still here.

I think people are reading too far into things.

Fiat ****ed up somewhere with the 1.2 and they ****ed with dealing with the issue also. That's pretty much all we know at this point.

306maxi said:

I think people are reading too far into things.

Fiat ****ed up somewhere with the 1.2 and they ****ed with dealing with the issue also. That's pretty much all we know at this point.

Click to expand...

That's all we know for certain just now, but it is reasonable to suppose Fiat will have moved most of their development resources/best engineers away from the 1.2 product line some time ago, and this issue may in consequence have caught them with their pants down, so to speak.

The sheer volume of 1.2 sales means both the impact on the brand and the logistics of rolling out a fix are not trivial and IMO this should have been escalated and prioritised much sooner. The Watchdog report deprived Fiat of any excuse in dragging their heels over an issue which is surely going to damage their reputation, at least in the UK.

zanes said:

Yes, I meant the N/A 60hp version. Although perhaps that explains why it's not over here yet- likely to be more expensive and presumably worse performance (and questionable economy) over the 1.2.

Click to expand...

I do hope I'm proved wrong, but when (if) the 60HP NA does arrive in the UK, I'm expecting to be underwhelmed by it, on all of the above counts.

Watched watchdog last night ,no mention of fiat.the next show is in may so fiat will be off the hook until then if nothing gets sorted.

auditt said:

Watched watchdog last night ,no mention of fiat.the next show is in may so fiat will be off the hook until then if nothing gets sorted.

Click to expand...

Who was the driving instructor in the "hyper-mileing" article?
He told the reporter to stay in same gear and use the brakes to stop- "using gears means using fuel".
Rest of it was equally bad- if you want to strip out a car and use these techniques- why not have another fiesta running the same route, not stripped out, with the driver driving "normally", then compare the results??
Also, his car had zetec s, probably 16 or 17" wheels- hardly a good way to achieve the best economy.
One bit had him slamming the brakes on just before a sharp bend.
Just how much worse could that report have been?

Does make you wonder what they would have done if Watchdog hadn't highlighted it, many people accepted the advice from the dealer that it was a "feature" of the car.

They are also the people who would probably never have bought from Fiat again as a result, so a odd way for Fiat to behave.

Let's be honest everybody makes mistakes and generally if you own up and fix the problem, people are quite understanding. If Fiat has simply said "Yes, we have a problem, we are very sorry but a solution is coming and will be applied free of charge. As a gesture for the inconvenience we will also valet your car when it is done".

Had that happened this would be a much smaller thread with a lot less stress and Fiat would actually come out with a positive reputation which would probably have helped them sell more cars.

Until watchdog came along that's how I was treated for a year.Nothing wrong with the car,get used to it!

poggy said:

Let's be honest everybody makes mistakes and generally if you own up and fix the problem, people are quite understanding. If Fiat has simply said "Yes, we have a problem, we are very sorry but a solution is coming and will be applied free of charge. As a gesture for the inconvenience we will also valet your car when it is done".

.

Click to expand...

I agree.

I don't think the issue is so much the sorting out the problem, but Fiats communication down to the dealers and on to the public which is unforgivable.
I generally don't think the dealers were told anything until recently and were hung out to dry by Fiat head office and left to fend for them selves on this issue.
On the other hand Having been involved with the motor industry off and on for years on the manufacturing side I can sympathise with the engineers looking into this problem too. Been there and got the T shirts.
I doubt if it was as straight forward as plugging in a diagnostic unit into a faulty car and saying "look there's the problem". More likely they had to find a significant number of faulty cars, take readings from them, compare them to good cars, not find any difference in the programming, much scratching of heads, more testing, no difference found, more scratching of heads, dismantling of cars, measuring parts, no difference found, more scratching of heads, re-building cars with different parts, more testing, more scratching of heads etc. etc. etc.
Even when the problem is found, it takes weeks or months to engineer a solution and test it before releasing at a fix.
These things are never as straight forward as they seem, and never sorted easily.

It would be easier to swallow this "characteristic" or "feature" of cars if it was mentioned in brochures.

But it is never even hinted at, so it is a tad mischievous (note the exceeding biting of tongue here) for manufacturers to throw out this line when anything unplanned seems to go wrong.

My Grande Punto Abarth has developed a gearbox whine (known problem with M32 box) at under 5 yrs old (40K on the clock). I'm waiting for separate quotes for gearbox strip and refurb or/and a new one. I'm looking at thousands I recon... I guess my car is not worth more than 7K so I don't want to spend that much... I'm really not pleased with Fiat for using the box with known problems and longevity issues. Seriously considering getting Suzuki Swift Sport. At least I might expect parts which are not made of cheese....


Sorry, rant over

Melanabb said:

My Grande Punto Abarth has developed a gearbox whine (known problem with M32 box) at under 5 yrs old (40K on the clock). I'm waiting for separate quotes for gearbox strip and refurb or/and a new one. I'm looking at thousands I recon... I guess my car is not worth more than 7K so I don't want to spend that much... I'm really not pleased with Fiat for using the box with known problems and longevity issues. Seriously considering getting Suzuki Swift Sport. At least I might expect parts which are not made of cheese....


Sorry, rant over

Click to expand...

Off topic Mel, but things may not be quite as bad as that.

Because it's a well known problem (caused by using a bearing that's not designed to take the rated torque of the 'box), there are a lot of indies out there with experience in fixing it, particularly within the Vauxhall fraternity as it's apparently a very common fault on the Astra VXR.

Usually the problem can be cured by replacing just one bearing, and there is an uprated alternative that should last much longer, here.

I found a chap on one of the Vauxhall forums who can fix these 'boxes on Vauxhalls for £399 all in (admittedly at 2012 prices), so a bit of searching and thinking 'outside the box' (if you'll pardon the pun) could just get you sorted for less than you might think.

But yes, if take it to a Fiat franchised dealer, I'm sure it will be thousands.

My own view would also be that your chances of a cheap fix may be significantly reduced if you keep using it in its current state.

And to answer the other question, IMO the Swift Sport is a far, far better engineered car.

The car market is hugely competitive; Fiat can't continue to treat customers like this and expect them to keep coming back for more.

I was having a think about this yesterday and I wonder if all euro 6 1.2s have the fault and some people haven't noticed. Because if it was just some engines surely fiat would just replace the ecu's for new ones, instead of creating an update? Just a thought...

Well, GMD Durham have succeeded in pissing me off for the second time. I will not be going back there after being told our 500 does not have the issue and we're not driving it properly. Condescending arrisholes!

I was told when picking it up there is no update for it. Which is odd since they have had our reg, chassis number etc, and was told yes there was one available. Before christmas, it was for the ESP model, and when we booked it in for today, it was for the non-esp model. When i picked up the keys, i was then told it was the other way around.

I will now be seeking remedy from another dealership on Monday, I have no trust with GMD anymore.

Do Fiat themselves not have a list of VINs of the affected cars? Or do they not have a definitive list? ie they don't know which cars are affected?

Why isn't there a recall?

Why is it up to the owners and dealers?

Best wishes,
Mick.

Judging by the fact that it only affects certain cars then they have a list

Andyb80 said:

I was having a think about this yesterday and I wonder if all euro 6 1.2s have the fault and some people haven't noticed. Because if it was just some engines surely fiat would just replace the ecu's for new ones, instead of creating an update? Just a thought...

Click to expand...

It's not a fault that people would be able to ignore.

My 500 is a 64 plate euro 6 with a bosh ECU and definatly dose not have the fault it's now done 2500 miles and the engine seems to be getting better and more free reving as the mile clock up .
I have checked out on the steepest hills where I live and it's fine regards Colin

306maxi said:

Judging by the fact that it only affects certain cars then they have a list

Click to expand...

If such a list does exist, it's the first I've heard of it. Do you have any evidence to back this up?

I've been trying to find some way of identifying whether a specific car definitively has this problem almost since this thread started and am no nearer now than I was in the beginning. Going back over all the posts, I can't see anything, other than the issue itself, which can be used to identify problem cars. Judging by the owner's stories of their dealer experience, I can't see anything to suggest the dealers have any more of a clue about this than we have. Those that have acknowledged the issue exists have done so on the basis of an engineer's test drive after much complaining from the customer, rather than by referring to some internal 'list' of cars affected.

Sorry I meant NO list!

306maxi said:

It's not a fault that people would be able to ignore.

Click to expand...

Not ignored just undiscovered. I thought our car was problem free until I went looking for the problem. Similar story with a friend who found out 6 months after buying hers.

GekeAlum said:

Hello All.
I've just taken ownership of a fiat panda 1.2 on Monday and Yesterday we found similar problems trying to park and set off on a hill, almost crashing into the stationery car in front whilst burning out the clutch.

I have contacted the dealership three times over the past 24 hours to discover nobody able to take my call, but instead I get an email from the sales agent explaining that they have checked and the problem is with the Fiat 500 only and there is nothing wrong with the Panda, and it may take a couple of thousand miles for the engine to bed in and get better performance.

Can anyone confirm that there are similar problems with the Fiat Panda?

Many thanks.

Click to expand...

Hi - I bought a new Panda 1.2 lounge at the end of September and have covered approx 1600 miles. I have the same problem - trying to pull from a standing start on a hill is nigh on impossible to do safely and smoothly! If I let the clutch out gently and try to balance the revs to pull away it just bogs down and tries to stall, meaning that the only way to counter this is to rev like mad and slip the clutch to make any kind of progress.


A few times I have had to quickly yank on the handbrake to stop the car from rolling into the vehicle behind, so I feel that there is an accident just waiting to happen. I feel like people must think that I'm a learner! However, I've been driving for nearly 30 years and never had a car that behaves like this.


I've spoken to the dealer who are going to look at the car on Monday, but their initial telephone response is that there is only an issue with the 500, not the Panda, despite it using the same engine?


If anyone has had any success getting a Panda updated, then I would be grateful to know the details so that I can pass them on to my local dealer.


Cheers


Jon