Hi Ab4444, it's BS Marsons at Keele, Staffordshire. They've been as helpful as they could have been i.e. having to follow the official Fiat line of educating the owners how to drive. I knew that was going to be the response until the calibration update was released so we've sat tight. I work for Bentley in vehicle development so politely asked not to be fobbed off with a driving lesson, the workshop foreman was great and apologised in advance for the likely wait. This was back in early September - the Italians are just awful at signing off vehicles with a compromise in what will be customer satisfaction - the Alfa Brera 2.2 JTS had a dreadful flat spot in the torque curve, Alfa refused to do a thing about it so independent mapping companies did.


The 500 is the wife's car, I drove the demo car - it was fine, the first time I drove ours I thought the clutch/gas modulation was awful and called the dealer......the wife still thinks its fine!

Anyway, fingers crossed it gets improved on the 10th!

Worzel said:

The 500 is the wife's car,.....the wife still thinks its fine!

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You do realise that your wife won't like it after it's been 'fixed' :bang:

What did Ford do to fix the problem with the Ka 1.2? Has no-one on here took their 500 to a Ford dealer to pay for the fix? (Rather than waiting for FIAT).

scout said:

You do realise that your wife won't like it after it's been 'fixed' :bang:

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Most likely - if she notices at all


Novo - I heard that Ford sorted the fix for themselves several months ago - I don't believe that Ford dealers could (or would be prepared to) access the ECM due to different variant coding. I may be wrong on that but it's what I've heard.

Novo said:

What did Ford do to fix the problem with the Ka 1.2? Has no-one on here took their 500 to a Ford dealer to pay for the fix? (Rather than waiting for FIAT).

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I suspect no A) because they shouldn't be having to pay for an inherit fault to be rectified and B) its a Fiat and the Ford dealer won't have the kit, the only thing that is the same is the Engine I suspect, and I'm not even sure if the KA has had the same issues or not?

I'm coming from a VAG background and the same software lets you talk to Audi, VW, Seat and Skoda. (Maybe Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini and Porsche?). 500's and Ka's are made on the same place aren't they?

Most Easterly Pandas said:

I suspect no A) because they shouldn't be having to pay for an inherit fault to be rectified and B) its a Fiat and the Ford dealer won't have the kit, the only thing that is the same is the Engine I suspect, and I'm not even sure if the KA has had the same issues or not?

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Pretty much all the running gear is identical.

Novo said:

I'm coming from a VAG background and the same software lets you talk to Audi, VW, Seat and Skoda. (Maybe Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini and Porsche?). 500's and Ka's are made on the same place aren't they?

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A Fiat, not matter the model, is not 'just like a Golf' though

ab4444

I'm so happy for you. I'm so happy that you're getting something done at last.
I've been following this story all through, and light is at the end of your tunnel for definite and I'm getting all emotional for you.

Good luck, and we're all rooting for you.

Regards,
Mick.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

A Fiat, not matter the model, is not 'just like a Golf' though

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True, but it is 'just like a Ka'.

Ford dealers had to take on board all the hardware & software needed to support the FIRE engine way back when the current shaped Ka launched.

I'd be very surprised if that kit couldn't push the latest Ka software onto a 500/Panda.

But I'd be equally surprised if any of them were prepared to do it, even if paid handsomely. Doing so would probably be contrary to the licencing agreement on the diagnostic kit & its software, & would also likely void both warranty and insurance, as the car would technically be running a non-standard map.

We shouldn't really need to be discussing this. Why should folks who've paid perfectly good money for a new car even be thinking about paying more money to an out-of-franchise dealer to fix something that Fiat should have sorted months ago? It's been said before, but it really does beggar belief.

Come on, Fiat - your customers have been waiting far too long for this already.

jrkitching said:

True, but it is 'just like a Ka'.

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Is it though? Don't get me wrong, I'll admit I'm only working on assumptions as haven't played with a new shape KA, but I'd be surprised if they're running Fiats canbus system etc etc.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Is it though? Don't get me wrong, I'll admit I'm only working on assumptions as haven't played with a new shape KA, but I'd be surprised if they're running Fiats canbus system etc etc.

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Yes, I recall reading that all Ford dealers had to invest in examiner in order to service the Ka.

What would be interesting is to use MES to interrogate a Ka.

Hi everyone,
My gf got a brand new 1.2 500 two months ago. First thing I did was try it on some hills. Not the smoothest getaway (either not enough or too many revs) but it would set off and accelerate up, so I thought it didn't have the problem. Having now driven it more I noticed its sluggish under 2k revs then once over it speeds off particularly in 1st, like bad turbo lag in a deisel. Is this normal or is it related to the whole problem?

Also thoughts go out to those having problems, and what a great forum this is!!

Looks like her car has the problem.

Tested the car today on a steeper hill I know well and it indefinitely has the problem. Does anyone know if this update is officially out?
Also our car has ESP.

Hello and welcome to the forum :wave:.

Sorry to hear you're suffering this issue too.

Andyb80 said:

Tested the car today on a steeper hill I know well and it indefinitely has the problem.

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Freudian slip?

Let's hope you don't have the problem indefinitely.

I had an email last week from fiat stating there will be an update soon.

Hi,
I've just read through this whole thread with interest even though I don't have a 1.2 500 (Croma 1.9 16V Eleganza). While it might have been of more interest earlier, I have some observations on the technical aspects. I'm not trying to defend Fiat (or Bosch) but it is possible that this was something out of their control. Manufacturing tolerances have been mentioned in connection with mechanical components. Similar issues can arise in the electronics. It is possible that a component within the ECU was changed after development of the firmware and caused an issue. The ECU maker may not even have been aware of the change. A fix might need a hardware change, a firmware change or possibly both. The ESC connection may (or not) be related. There might be additional hardware required in the ECU for the ESC function that affects basic operation (even something a simple as an extra decoupling capacitor). Production of ESC ECUs could have been at different times as they are built in batches. I wonder if any of the "fixed" cars now have the ESC option?
This is not just a theory, I once had to sort out an issue where an existing hardware interface (that drove solenoid valves at high speed, not unlike a fuel injection system) that had worked for years on several robotic machines, suddenly gave problems to some customers on new machines. Long story short, the supplier of the solenoid driver chip had changed the silicon process to a new "smaller" one. This made the chips faster and they now responded to what had been insignificant "errors" in the timing of the signals sent to them. The cure was a change to the software that sent the signals to the driver. The issue was clouded by the fact that some users were not affected by the problem, not because it wasn't there, they just used the machine differently. Things are often not as obvious at the "sharp end" as seems to us when sitting at home in our armchairs.

I understand why the problem might be there, but the response has been shockingly bad.

I work in the manufacturing industry and the company I work for has had retrofits due to poor design, poor assembly and poor component manufacture by suppliers. But we deal with that far better than Fiat is dealing with this.

g8rpi said:

I'm not trying to defend Fiat

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Good, because IMHO Fiat's position is indefensible.

It's not the fact that a number of cars were sold with this issue; as you say, these are complex systems and sometimes it's impossible to fully debug them before mass production, however hard you try.

What's indefensible is the way they've chosen to deal with their customers who've been affected .

Ford have had to deal with the same issue on the Ka and by all acounts, a fix was promptly found and a rollout programme put in place for affected owners. I also suspect Ford have been much more proactive in getting the fix in place before the cars were delivered.