Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

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Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Thought you would all be interested to know that following a second letter that was emailed and posted to my dealer last Friday, I received a phone call from my finance company (who, along with Fiat and Watchdog) had been cc'd into the communications.

The finance company explained they had had a lovely long conversation with the MD at the dealership on the Friday, acknowledged that all my paperwork had been received by them and the dealer, and - wait for it - would I please make contact with the dealer to organise a meeting to 'get this all sorted out'....

Can you imagine my reaction?! Bear in mind my latest letter included my email and mobile number. And yes, you've guessed it - there has not been an email or a phone call from this dealership. Because he's waiting for ME to do all the running.

Words fail me...

Mmmm know what you mean. So send him an email cc'd to Fiat CS and Watchdog. Tell him that you are pleased that he wants to "get this all sorted out" but that you have had more than enough of chasing around after a resolution. So would HE please set out his proposed solution to YOU in an email ASAP. (y)
 
don't know if this is a way of finding which is euro 5 or 6 model but found it in downloaded hand book[/FONT]thought I would post just in case it helps

Ok, to throw a spanner in the Euro6 debate, Ours is a Euro5 1.2 :eek: Thanks Jazzster for pointing this out! Us blokes completely missed that, it's in our nature to ignore the manual ;)

From the V5 (also checked on VIN plate)
2014-12-04 06.51.08.jpg

According to the manual
Euro5-6.jpg
 
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I bought a fiat 500s two weeks ago and I am having exactly the same problem as you but I am also having problems driving uphill it seems to lose power when going up hill. Does anyone have any ideas what is causing this?
 
I bought a fiat 500s two weeks ago and I am having exactly the same problem as you but I am also having problems driving uphill it seems to lose power when going up hill. Does anyone have any ideas what is causing this?

Read this whole thread. No-one knows what's causing it. Fiat are looking at creating an update, where-as one of our members has had their ECU replaced to resolve the issue.

At the moment, it's in the hands of Fiat to sort this out. I would contact your Fiat dealer and ask to be notified when this becomes available.
 
Read this whole thread. No-one knows what's causing it. Fiat are looking at creating an update, where-as one of our members has had their ECU replaced to resolve the issue.

At the moment, it's in the hands of Fiat to sort this out. I would contact your Fiat dealer and ask to be notified when this becomes available.
actually we now know whats causing it. its a problem with the ECU software = )
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

I believe it's highly unlikely we'll ever know exactly what is causing this problem, more than some vague guff [for example, as if that's not obvious] about "it's the ESP software" or whatever.

FIAT will eventually roll out a hardware/software fix (and we can't even say "oh, they've replaced hardware, must be a hardware fault") and that will be it, with a few short lines of "explanation".

But the mind boggles at how the hell this got out into the wild.
 
Alas....a further 3-page, point-scoring letter landed yesterday from the dealership.

I phoned Fiat to try to understand what was happening regarding my 'technical ticket' and my case worker promised to ring the dealership and come back to me....at 5.40pm, I'm still waiting for that call.

As far as the dealership are concerned, there is nothing wrong with my car. They've confirmed that it's fitted with the ESP (which must mean there is no problem with it) and what do I expect them to do now...

I would be very glad to communicate privately to someone on here the documentation that I have received (& exchanged) with this company. Admittedly, until I know for certain from Fiat's technical team that there's nothing wrong with my car, I don't want to concede that they're right and I'm wrong.

The fact still remains - my car struggles with hill starts. And of course, until I receive the driving lesson from this dealership MD (and hear from Fiat's technical team), NOONE is going to be any the wiser as to what the heck is going on.

Feel like I'm starting to go mad.....
 
Alas....a further 3-page, point-scoring letter landed yesterday from the dealership.

I phoned Fiat to try to understand what was happening regarding my 'technical ticket' and my case worker promised to ring the dealership and come back to me....at 5.40pm, I'm still waiting for that call.

As far as the dealership are concerned, there is nothing wrong with my car. They've confirmed that it's fitted with the ESP (which must mean there is no problem with it) and what do I expect them to do now...

I would be very glad to communicate privately to someone on here the documentation that I have received (& exchanged) with this company. Admittedly, until I know for certain from Fiat's technical team that there's nothing wrong with my car, I don't want to concede that they're right and I'm wrong.

The fact still remains - my car struggles with hill starts. And of course, until I receive the driving lesson from this dealership MD (and hear from Fiat's technical team), NOONE is going to be any the wiser as to what the heck is going on.

Feel like I'm starting to go mad.....


Saturday tomorrow-very busy day.
Go and park the car with a dirty great sign in it, at the front of the showroom.
Then see what happens....
 
Alas....a further 3-page, point-scoring letter landed yesterday from the dealership.

I phoned Fiat to try to understand what was happening regarding my 'technical ticket' and my case worker promised to ring the dealership and come back to me....at 5.40pm, I'm still waiting for that call.

As far as the dealership are concerned, there is nothing wrong with my car. They've confirmed that it's fitted with the ESP (which must mean there is no problem with it) and what do I expect them to do now...

I would be very glad to communicate privately to someone on here the documentation that I have received (& exchanged) with this company. Admittedly, until I know for certain from Fiat's technical team that there's nothing wrong with my car, I don't want to concede that they're right and I'm wrong.

The fact still remains - my car struggles with hill starts. And of course, until I receive the driving lesson from this dealership MD (and hear from Fiat's technical team), NOONE is going to be any the wiser as to what the heck is going on.

Feel like I'm starting to go mad.....

Sounds to me as though this dealer is a bit of a philistine and has totally lost the plot. Hopefully, Fiat will intervene on your behalf and get this problem sorted. In the meantime, it's Friday (again) Hit the wine Girl! (y)
 
Saturday tomorrow-very busy day.
Go and park the car with a dirty great sign in it, at the front of the showroom.
Then see what happens....

I very nearly got my Bravo sign written with Desira Norwich and Fiat UK's failings - its not all that expensive, and would certainly get publicity!
 
I very nearly got my Bravo sign written with Desira Norwich and Fiat UK's failings - its not all that expensive, and would certainly get publicity!

I have been a customer of Desira (Diss) for 27 years and, until I bought my latest 1.2 Panda had a very good relationship with them. This clearly counts for nothing. Their attitude is now one of ‘we can’t do anything, you’ll just have to live with it’ and they excuse themselves from blame by saying they are only one spoke in a big wheel.

My wife had a similar idea to yours, perhaps a mass protest would attract the interest of the Press. However, we are hanging fire at the moment while waiting for a response to our latest attempt to reject the car under the 1979 Trade of Goods Act, following advice from Trading Standards. We have had to get an independent engineers report, and as it is the car is worth very little. Other things have started to fail and it not fit to be on the road. It has only done around 20 miles in the last couple of months since I bought a six-month-old Ford. When I have had to drive the Fiat since then it has thrown into high relief just how abysmal its performance is. The comparison with my daughters 09 Panda is also very marked, I drove this through Norwich the other day and it is like a pocket rocket.
 
ab4444- in your dealer's most recent letter have they even mentioned the supposed new fix coming in the new year?
Yours has esp which no doubt is going to throw a further spanner in the works.
They seem to not be even acknowledging a fault with yours- I reckon the time has come to take decisive action.
Meet the MD, let him give you the driving lesson, mention the new fix, and if still won't admit a fault he's never going to.
Then is the time to start making loud noises in the showroom.
 
ab4444- in your dealer's most recent letter have they even mentioned the supposed new fix coming in the new year?
Yours has esp which no doubt is going to throw a further spanner in the works.
They seem to not be even acknowledging a fault with yours- I reckon the time has come to take decisive action.
Meet the MD, let him give you the driving lesson, mention the new fix, and if still won't admit a fault he's never going to.
Then is the time to start making loud noises in the showroom.

The esp thing is borlocks imho. The problem with this is that if there's a fix then you have to be reasonable and allow them to give it a go.
 
The problem with this is that if there's a fix then you have to be reasonable and allow them to give it a go.

Maybe.

In law, it comes down to whether a Court decides you have accepted the goods. If you reject at the first reasonable opportunity after noticing the fault, and the fault is sufficiently serious as to render the goods substantially unfit for purpose, then you can refuse a repair and insist on a refund.

If you have kept using the goods after noticing the fault, and certainly if you have kept using them after noticing the fault, then you will likely be deemed to have accepted them, and the dealer then only has to offer a repair (unless repair is not possible).

To be able to reject when repair is possible, if you can answer 'Yes' to the two questions:

1. Am I rejecting the goods at the first possible opportunity?

2. Is the fault sufficiently serious as to render the goods substantially unfit for purpose?

then you have a reasonable chance in law of winning your case if the dealer refuses to refund and it goes to Court.

Some cases are clear cut. For example, if you're driving home after collecting the car and a conrod goes through the side of the crankcase, or the layshaft breaks and the gearbox seizes solid, then you can reject the car out of hand; you don't have to accept an offer of a replacement engine or gearbox. These sort of things thankfully happen only very rarely.

With this issue, I'd say it's less clear, since the car can still be driven in most circumstances - you can't insist on a refund just because something isn't very good. It would need a test case to decide for sure, and personally I wouldn't want to chance it; you could be out of pocket for more than the value of the car if you lose, and still end up having to accept a repair.

It would all come down to whether a County Court Judge decided the fault was sufficiently serious as to render the car substantially unfit for purpose. In practice, the Court would rely on the opinion of independent witnesses; I'm sure the dealer would offer a robust defence, so you'd need to have your own independent expert statement that the car was, on balance of probability, substantially defective at the time of original sale.

Arguing this in Court would likely cost the loser tens of thousands of pounds and in view of the high profile of this now, Fiat might throw a lot of muscle at this. Before rejecting, you'd certainly have to ask yourself "Do I feel lucky?".
 
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I wouldn't say it was reasonable to have to wait eight months or more for a promised 'fix'.
At first Fiat customer services said they knew there was a problem as a fix was being worked on, but they soon did a U-turn and began to say "There is nothing wrong, you just have to learn how to drive it." Finally after Watchdog intervened they admitted there was a fault with the 1.2 Euro 6 engine (so that must include the Panda as well as the 500 they featured).
A report by an independent engineer confirmed that there is definitely a fault with my parents Panda. This was indicated by the difficulty in performing hill starts and the fact that if you depressed the clutch at 2000 revs the power and revs would suddenly drop.
The car is not at all driver friendly, especially as you can never be sure how it will respond when you pull away.

I have to say my parents new Fiesta is absolutely lovely to drive. Its extremely responsive, which is such a contrast with the Panda.
 
GOOD NEWS Re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

After a major rant with my dealer and Fiat over the past few days, our undrivable 3 month old 1.2 Euro 6 Panda with 350 miles on the clock has had a software remap installed this morning (6.12.14) and they also mentioned that there is a "cluth re-learn" sensor which has been reset.
First impressions are it is a differnet car to drive, now pulls away below 2000 revs and has sufficient low down torque to be a "normal" car.
Not tried a full on hill start yet but so relieved at this improvement as the car is for my daughter and we had stopped her driving it.
Not sure if they have installed the "old" upgrade which some say has been around for several months or if I am guinea pig for the "new" upgrade which is rumoured to be scheduled for January 15.
Either way RESULT !!!!!
 
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