Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

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Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Wow, this ESP sounds great, it'll probably cure Ebola as well.... Thank goodness for EU surveys and respected organisations.

Meanwhile motorists in the real world will still buy the cheapest crappiest Chinese discount tyres to put on their modern high-tech cars when replacement time comes around after a couple of years.
i love the ESP rules. If the consumer is stupid thats not the EU's fault.
Mind you, my next tires will probably be Toyo. (Japanese)
280 euros for a set of 4.
The equivalent 'European' tires cost 320 for a set of 4 so no i am not paying that.
Besides, we now have EU tire labeling for fuel consumption and wet braking!
 
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http://www.autoevolution.com/news/esp-as-standard-in-the-eu-starting-2011-5112.html


The European Parliament has passed the law which will require all new models to be sold in the European Union starting 2011 to be fitted with Electronic Stability Program (ESP) as standard on all vehicle versions, motorspain.com reported.

The voting came at the end of several months of talks between EU officials and manufacturer representatives. As was expected, most of them asked for the law to come into effect after 2012, even if there were a few who agreed the deadline should be rather 2010.

The law will allow current models to be produced without ESP until 2018. By that time, new requirements might be added to the law, such as the use of an advanced emergency braking system (AEBS) or tire pressure monitoring system (TMPS). For trucks, it may become compulsory to be fitted with lane departure warning systems .

One of the most common active safety systems in the world, ESP still has a long way to go before becoming part of a vehicle and stop being an optional feature, as is the case with some low cost European vehicles, such as the Dacia Logan.

According to the EU, implementing ESP as standard will help prevent the death of some 4,000 people each year and stop another 100,000 from getting hurt in car crashes. According to studies conducted by both Bosch and other parties, accidents caused by sideslip can be reduced by up to 80 percent.

The first recommendation to introduce ESP as standard was made by the EU in May last year. According to EurotaxGlass's, an European automotive business intelligence group, the ESP is the most important safety feature after the seatbelt.

The law will allow current models to be produced without ESP until 2018.

So its not all new cars ;)

Just those type approved from now onwards, and all new cars after 2018.
 
Interesting to find, according to the link below from the Oil quantity thread: https://www.fiatforum.com/500/416107-how-many-litres-oil-needed-oil-change.html

santa said:
2.9 liters according to the manual, which You can find online here:
http://aftersales.fiat.com/elum/Home.aspx?id_language=12

According to the site, our reg details brings up our model and vin, but lists a Euro6 User guide.

Just to make sure it wasn't generic, i browsed AutoTrader for a 2013 13-plate Fiat 500 to use the reg and it didn't list the Euro6 User Guide in the downloads. So the Euro6 may have been from Sept 2013 onwards but also included a switchover of ECU's at some point from Magneti Marelli to Bosch. Ours has a Magneti Mareli ECU (i will get the details later for the database that is being compiled), and we don't have ESP/Hill-start, just ABS. Does the cars with ESP have the Bosch ECU i wonder? And non-ESP have the Magneti Marelli? Just a thought
 
Spec: 500 Lounge
Registered: 13/09/2013
1.2 8v
ABS
Start/Stop

ECU: Magneti Marelli
I AW 5SF9.MS D419
I AW 5SF9.MS/HW405/8721-T53
B74IBH27N 12V= 183 13
BC.0118953.A 51966062

Connector Label
0055224113079831
55224113 312
Motore 8V EVO ST^ST
(the rest i couldn't read)

Hope this helps
 

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Seems pretty clear... Euro 4 / 5 were the conventional style Marelli units with the 2 connectors on top, and from earlier this year the Euro 6 cars gained the flipped over Bosch unit.

I'm sure the mechanics of the engine are probably pretty much identical for all (and the new Pandas), unless they messed with the VVT or something for E6 compliance.

And all should give adequate and predictable performance if the ECU software doesn't get its knickers in a twist...
 
Seems pretty clear... Euro 4 / 5 were the conventional style Marelli units with the 2 connectors on top, and from earlier this year the Euro 6 cars gained the flipped over Bosch unit.

That said, mine has the issue with the Magneti Marelli unit, so i don't think it's just down to one particular ECU manufacturer
 
That said, mine has the issue with the Magneti Marelli unit, so i don't think it's just down to one particular ECU manufacturer

Registered sept 2013 but built who knows when?
Yours has the problem, and has the MM ecu, so would that make it euro5??
The plot thickens....
 
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That's why i'm wondering if MM ECU's were fitted to non ESP/ESC 500's, and Bosch to those that have it


So in theory euro 5's with mm ecu with no esp might have the hill start problem??
surely the problem would have been reported long before now- there must be hundreds of thousands euro 5 1.2 pops running around.
if that is the case, then database of ecu numbers affected really is the way to go.
Hows that coming along jrkitching?
My head hurts.
 
So in theory euro 5's with mm ecu with no esp might have the hill start problem??
surely the problem would have been reported long before now- there must be hundreds of thousands euro 5 1.2 pops running around.

No, i'm saying my ECU part number is different to the other MM ones posted so far, there could be an exception that some MM ECU's were loaded with a faulty map, and given there's no reports or posts of anyone pre-Sept-2013 having the issue, then it's unlikely earlier Euro5 MM ecus will be affected.
 
No, i'm saying my ECU part number is different to the other MM ones posted so far, there could be an exception that some MM ECU's were loaded with a faulty map, and given there's no reports or posts of anyone pre-Sept-2013 having the issue, then it's unlikely earlier Euro5 MM ecus will be affected.


Right I see.
Hope you get it sorted soon.
Good luck.
 
Seems pretty clear... Euro 4 / 5 were the conventional style Marelli units with the 2 connectors on top, and from earlier this year the Euro 6 cars gained the flipped over Bosch unit.

Do you have any evidence for this, or is it just a guess? Recent posts would suggest that if it's a guess, it's a bad one.

Registered sept 2013 but built who knows when?
Yours has the problem, and has the MM ecu, so would that make it euro5??
The plot thickens....

The ECU build date is on the top right corner of the ECU label in ddd/yy format. Brickfoot's ECU was built on day 183/13 - that's 2nd July 2013 to us mortal folks.

So in theory euro 5's with mm ecu with no esp might have the hill start problem??
surely the problem would have been reported long before now- there must be hundreds of thousands euro 5 1.2 pops running around.
if that is the case, then database of ecu numbers affected really is the way to go.
Hows that coming along jrkitching?

We are collecting useful information - many thanks to everyone who's posted pictures & other data from their ECU's. We need more data to isolate the problem to specific ECU types/part numbers.

Older Euro 5 1.2's with the Magneti Marelli ECU part numbers 51847332 or 51875964 do not suffer from this issue.

Brickfoot's car with MM ECU part number 51966062 does have the fault.

My head hurts.

My head hurts too but I'm beginning to formulate an explanation which fits the facts as we know them. If everyone with a 2013 or 2014 1.2 could post a picture of their ECU & say whether or not they're experiencing this issue, and whether or not their car has ESP/ESC, it would help greatly to clarify matters.
 
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I'd suggest that if this thread is being back-dated to include pre-E6 cars with similar issues then that deserves its own thread so that that small (?) number of cases can be analysed separately. The title of this thread surely refers to a specific issue on the latest build standard with Bosch ECUs (?)which Fiat supposedly is fixing with a software update in the near future.

I would be totally amazed if the switch to E6 this year was not accomplished with a new wiring harness and sensor setup to coincide with the new Bosch ECU. It's quite reasonable to conclude that MM units were for the older E4/E5 build but to confirm this the best bet surely would be to approach a cooperative and knowledgeable Fiat technician - they will know better than anyone what changed when and for what reason.
 
My head hurts too but I'm beginning to formulate an explanation which fits the facts as we know them. If everyone with a 2013 or 2014 1.2 could post a picture of their ECU & say whether or not they're experiencing this issue, and whether or not their car has ESP/ESC, it would help greatly to clarify matters.


Come on jrkitching, pull your finger out. I would have thought you'd have it all sussed/sorted by now :p
 
I'd suggest that if this thread is being back-dated to include pre-E6 cars with similar issues then that deserves its own thread so that that small (?) number of cases can be analysed separately. The title of this thread surely refers to a specific issue on the latest build standard with Bosch ECUs (?)which Fiat supposedly is fixing with a software update in the near future.

I would be totally amazed if the switch to E6 this year was not accomplished with a new wiring harness and sensor setup to coincide with the new Bosch ECU. It's quite reasonable to conclude that MM units were for the older E4/E5 build but to confirm this the best bet surely would be to approach a cooperative and knowledgeable Fiat technician - they will know better than anyone what changed when and for what reason.

TBH, that's basically been my thinking too - though until we get a few more photos/reports, we still don't even know for sure that all Euro 6 1.2 cars have a Bosch ECU.

Whilst I think there are some red herrings in here as well, the last thing I want to do is be in any way dismissive of those who are suffering as a result of this. For some folks, this is a big issue and the way in which Fiat are handling it is, to my way of thinking, nothing short of deplorable.

I've been hoping since this thread started that someone "in the know" would come along with some concrete information about what has been changed and when - but, somewhat to my surprise, that's not happened as yet.
 
i must admit when i had 1.2 models in the past and we visited Revel stoke caraven park in devon, i used to hate going through the barrier on the way out
it is on a very steep hill and only raised when you got about 6 feet away from it
judging the revs even in 1st gear was quite a job, otherwise it would go flat and you would be going no where:mad:
 
TBH, that's basically been my thinking too - though until we get a few more photos/reports, we still don't even know for sure that all Euro 6 1.2 cars have a Bosch ECU.

Whilst I think there are some red herrings in here as well, the last thing I want to do is be in any way dismissive of those who are suffering as a result of this. For some folks, this is a big issue and the way in which Fiat are handling it is, to my way of thinking, nothing short of deplorable.

I've been hoping since this thread started that someone "in the know" would come along with some concrete information about what has been changed and when - but, somewhat to my surprise, that's not happened as yet.
yeah where is T1480? Isn't he a main dealer tech? Or will Fiat sack him if he talks = )
 
don't know if this is a way of finding which is euro 5 or 6 model but found it in downloaded hand book
EURO 5TYPE-APPROVAL


Versions Engine type code Bodywork version code










1.2 8v 69 HP 169A4000


312AXA1A 00C (*)






312AXA1A 00D




312AXA1A 00E (*) (**)


312AXA1A 00F (**)


312AXA1A 00S (***)






(**) Versions with Start&Stop system


(***) Versions / markets, where provided


(*) Versions with electric power steering


* For versions/markets, where provided


EURO 6TYPE-APPROVAL


Versions Engine type code Bodywork version code






1.2 8V 69 HP 169A4000


312AXA1A 00W 00X (**)






312AXA1A 00U 00V




(**) Versions with Start&Stop system


(***) Versions / markets, where provided


thought I would post just in case it helps
 
Thought you would all be interested to know that following a second letter that was emailed and posted to my dealer last Friday, I received a phone call from my finance company (who, along with Fiat and Watchdog) had been cc'd into the communications.

The finance company explained they had had a lovely long conversation with the MD at the dealership on the Friday, acknowledged that all my paperwork had been received by them and the dealer, and - wait for it - would I please make contact with the dealer to organise a meeting to 'get this all sorted out'....

Can you imagine my reaction?! Bear in mind my latest letter included my email and mobile number. And yes, you've guessed it - there has not been an email or a phone call from this dealership. Because he's waiting for ME to do all the running.

Words fail me...
 
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