If you're buying new, the 1.2 Panda is Euro6 and some certainly do have this issue.
Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
- Thread starter auditt
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Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
If you're buying new, the 1.2 Panda is Euro6 and some certainly do have this issue.
The whole affair has put me off Fiat to be honest, they have handled it extremely poorly.
On the flip side, I think to be fair to them, they probably knew there was an issue, and have there will have been a lot going on at Fiat HQ in recent weeks.
But to say to a customer you are driving it wrong, or whatever else they told dealers to say, whilst they found a fix, was unforgiveable.
On the flip side, I think to be fair to them, they probably knew there was an issue, and have there will have been a lot going on at Fiat HQ in recent weeks.
But to say to a customer you are driving it wrong, or whatever else they told dealers to say, whilst they found a fix, was unforgiveable.
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Hi all,
ECU data as promised.
Sorry the info is not 100% but I didn’t have time to remove the ECU so just took the photo in situ.
ECU connector data:
BOSCH
1928 405 217
2014.01.27
Code 13
On the connector label:
0055255528002715
55255529 / 312
MOT. 8V EVO E6 S&S
02.07.2013 / M001-02499
17404 00121 / 180214
YAZAKI
ECU: stamped on one side: 1844
Label on other side:
500 1.2 8V BZ MT S&S EURO 6
D419 EG22
9GF.T7 BC.0100661.F
9GF.T7/****01/2F03- A49
5199408
********* 12V=
Hope this helps.
ECU data as promised.
Sorry the info is not 100% but I didn’t have time to remove the ECU so just took the photo in situ.
ECU connector data:
BOSCH
1928 405 217
2014.01.27
Code 13
On the connector label:
0055255528002715
55255529 / 312
MOT. 8V EVO E6 S&S
02.07.2013 / M001-02499
17404 00121 / 180214
YAZAKI
ECU: stamped on one side: 1844
Label on other side:
500 1.2 8V BZ MT S&S EURO 6
D419 EG22
9GF.T7 BC.0100661.F
9GF.T7/****01/2F03- A49
5199408
********* 12V=
Hope this helps.
Attachments
Yes my car has had its ECU replaced to resolve the hill start / moving off problems
OK I really need to try to read the serial number on ours but if the 4 digit number means anything mine could be younger than yours. I could see the label but I couldn't see any way of reading it without removing the ECU.
But that could mean nothing, Fiat could have completly reworked an ECU they had on the shelf.
Thinking about it they would want to swap the ECU's to begin with rather than over writting any existing software. This would ensure a completely "clean" install so to speak i.e. no chance of any contamination which could confuse the result.
But that could mean nothing, Fiat could have completly reworked an ECU they had on the shelf.
Thinking about it they would want to swap the ECU's to begin with rather than over writting any existing software. This would ensure a completely "clean" install so to speak i.e. no chance of any contamination which could confuse the result.
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Well, am wondering if I saw my first "dodgy" 500 yesterday
Was a 64 plate 1.2 500S Thrifty hire car. Was walking along and saw it pulling out of the car park space, so thought would keep an eye on it.
It seemed very sluggish pulling away even on the flat in first gear. Now it's quite possible the driver wasn't paying proper attention, but to me it didn't seem to properly accelerate until reaching around 2000-2500rpm in first (doing about 10-15mph). Then of course the driver shifted into second and was off.
Obviously I can't verify those figures, am just having a guess based on my experience of the 1.2 engine in the 500 and Panda. Does that sound about right to those of you who are having issues?
Was a 64 plate 1.2 500S Thrifty hire car. Was walking along and saw it pulling out of the car park space, so thought would keep an eye on it.
It seemed very sluggish pulling away even on the flat in first gear. Now it's quite possible the driver wasn't paying proper attention, but to me it didn't seem to properly accelerate until reaching around 2000-2500rpm in first (doing about 10-15mph). Then of course the driver shifted into second and was off.
Obviously I can't verify those figures, am just having a guess based on my experience of the 1.2 engine in the 500 and Panda. Does that sound about right to those of you who are having issues?
If anyone cares to carefully read Gixxers earlier post and the latest Fiat statement on BBC Watchdog (see below), they would reasonably conclude that there is no need for anyone to be titting about in their engine bays taking photographs and recording serial numbers and build dates for ECU modules, and trying to guess which number might have changed and what it might mean...
Fiat seem to have recognised and acknowledged the problem and there is a simple ECU software update that will be applied to affected cars by Dealers at the appropriate time in the near future. The Campaign has been useful if only ultimately slightly informative (so many red herrings...), and can be put on hold for now I reckon.
Rumours of the death of the classic 1.2 FIRE seem to have been exagerated (thankfully). It's ironic that the problem seems to have affected owners who down-specced their cars to avoid some of this wonderful clever crap the the legislators and manufacturers seem to insist on forcing on the consumer ad infinitum...
Fiat statement follows....
Further statement 24/11/14:
Following the BBC Watchdog segments featuring the FIAT 500 1.2, which aired on November 6 and November 13 2014, we received a number of calls from customers related to the performance of their engine when executing hill starts.
The majority of calls we received were from owners of Euro 6 FIAT 500 1.2 vehicles built without optional ESC (Electronic Stability Control), which have different engine software to vehicles equipped with ESC. ESC is now standard on all models across the FIAT range.
In response to the small number of customers who are not satisfied with the performance of their non-ESC cars when executing hill starts, we are currently working on a software update which will improve the driveability of their cars, and as soon as it becomes available we will apply this software update to these customers’ vehicles during their next scheduled service at an official FIAT service facility.
It’s important to note that all FIAT 500 1.2 cars are absolutely safe and operate within our design and manufacturing parameters and fully comply with all current legislative requirements.
Should anyone wish to get in contact in relation to their vehicle they can contact their local dealership or call our FIAT Customer Care team on 00800 3428 0000.
Fiat seem to have recognised and acknowledged the problem and there is a simple ECU software update that will be applied to affected cars by Dealers at the appropriate time in the near future. The Campaign has been useful if only ultimately slightly informative (so many red herrings...), and can be put on hold for now I reckon.
Rumours of the death of the classic 1.2 FIRE seem to have been exagerated (thankfully). It's ironic that the problem seems to have affected owners who down-specced their cars to avoid some of this wonderful clever crap the the legislators and manufacturers seem to insist on forcing on the consumer ad infinitum...
Fiat statement follows....
Further statement 24/11/14:
Following the BBC Watchdog segments featuring the FIAT 500 1.2, which aired on November 6 and November 13 2014, we received a number of calls from customers related to the performance of their engine when executing hill starts.
The majority of calls we received were from owners of Euro 6 FIAT 500 1.2 vehicles built without optional ESC (Electronic Stability Control), which have different engine software to vehicles equipped with ESC. ESC is now standard on all models across the FIAT range.
In response to the small number of customers who are not satisfied with the performance of their non-ESC cars when executing hill starts, we are currently working on a software update which will improve the driveability of their cars, and as soon as it becomes available we will apply this software update to these customers’ vehicles during their next scheduled service at an official FIAT service facility.
It’s important to note that all FIAT 500 1.2 cars are absolutely safe and operate within our design and manufacturing parameters and fully comply with all current legislative requirements.
Should anyone wish to get in contact in relation to their vehicle they can contact their local dealership or call our FIAT Customer Care team on 00800 3428 0000.
yes, the rumours of the 1.2's death were always exaggerated. I wish some people would wait till the resolution to declare that they know what the problem is and why it's happened.
Ultimately this issue is just another "niggle" to add to the long list of sub-standard or unsatisfactory features or shortcomings of the 500, I'm sure if someone compiled a comprehensive list of these it would make entertaining reading for enthusiasts and critics alike.
Lets see.. strut mounts, brake calipers, boot wiring, boot locks, DRLs, Stop & Start, driving position, visibility, suspension, exhausts....
Lets see.. strut mounts, brake calipers, boot wiring, boot locks, DRLs, Stop & Start, driving position, visibility, suspension, exhausts....
My exhaust probably still has a year in it at 72k miles
Just had a call from my dealer. He confirmed that Fiat are working on a fix to the ECU software (he was no more specific than that) and this was expected sometime early in 2015. He thought it likely that this would be before the end of January.
Given the evidence on here, ie that cars have been fixed AND that I don't live in a hilly area, I reckon I can live with that.
But full marks to the dealer, he said he'd phone me today and he did.
Given the evidence on here, ie that cars have been fixed AND that I don't live in a hilly area, I reckon I can live with that.
But full marks to the dealer, he said he'd phone me today and he did.
ahmett
Prominent member
i think the 1.2 will be phased out of the euro market soon and replaced with the NA twinair .
ahmett
Prominent member
door handles and rubbish batteries = )
ahmett
Prominent member
mine too! it is a bit noisier than usual though = )My exhaust probably still has a year in it at 72k miles
ahmett
Prominent member
about time with the ESC. i think its EU law now that all new cars sold in EU must come with traction control as standard.
Nope to the best of my knowledge - only tyre pressure monitors.
ahmett
Prominent member
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/esp-as-standard-in-the-eu-starting-2011-5112.html
The European Parliament has passed the law which will require all new models to be sold in the European Union starting 2011 to be fitted with Electronic Stability Program (ESP) as standard on all vehicle versions, motorspain.com reported.
The voting came at the end of several months of talks between EU officials and manufacturer representatives. As was expected, most of them asked for the law to come into effect after 2012, even if there were a few who agreed the deadline should be rather 2010.
The law will allow current models to be produced without ESP until 2018. By that time, new requirements might be added to the law, such as the use of an advanced emergency braking system (AEBS) or tire pressure monitoring system (TMPS). For trucks, it may become compulsory to be fitted with lane departure warning systems .
One of the most common active safety systems in the world, ESP still has a long way to go before becoming part of a vehicle and stop being an optional feature, as is the case with some low cost European vehicles, such as the Dacia Logan.
According to the EU, implementing ESP as standard will help prevent the death of some 4,000 people each year and stop another 100,000 from getting hurt in car crashes. According to studies conducted by both Bosch and other parties, accidents caused by sideslip can be reduced by up to 80 percent.
The first recommendation to introduce ESP as standard was made by the EU in May last year. According to EurotaxGlass's, an European automotive business intelligence group, the ESP is the most important safety feature after the seatbelt.
Wow, this ESP sounds great, it'll probably cure Ebola as well.... Thank goodness for EU surveys and respected organisations.
Meanwhile motorists in the real world will still buy the cheapest crappiest Chinese discount tyres to put on their modern high-tech cars when replacement time comes around after a couple of years.
Meanwhile motorists in the real world will still buy the cheapest crappiest Chinese discount tyres to put on their modern high-tech cars when replacement time comes around after a couple of years.
Exactly.....