Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

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Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Only in so far as the 2009/10 eco Pandas use the 60bhp Euro4 engine. Your other observation looks right on the money to me.



What that rolling road graph is showing us is the 60bhp Euro4 engine vs the latest iteration of the 69bhp engine in the current Panda.

What it doesn't show (though it would be interesting to see) is a 4/5yr old 69bhp 500.

IMO the chances that the engine in a current production 69bhp Panda is running the same map as an early 1.2 69bhp 500 are slim indeed - so just because Maxi's car (or my 500 for that matter) hasn't got a noticeable flat spot proves absolutely nothing as far as the current crop of cars is concerned.

There are sufficient folks posting about the flat spot issue on both the 500 & Panda forums to lead me to believe there's some substance to this which prospective purchasers may want to consider before signing on the dotted line. IMO there's more going on here than the difference between a tight engine & one that's been run in.
Whist I'm sure the map might be different, I don't think it's impossible that the issue might just be comparing two different engines, one that is particularly strong down low to one that's a bit more peaky and is practically new.


My 500 is a totally different car to the one I picked up almost 5 years and a almost 66k miles ago.......
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

My 500 is a totally different car to the one I picked up almost 5 years and a almost 66k miles ago.......

So is mine, but I'm still going to side with the folks that are saying a definite flat spot isn't going to go away once the car is a bit more run in.

But I'd certainly agree with you that the 60bhp Euro 4 engine is noticeably smoother and also pulls better that the 69bhp vvt motor at the bottom end of the rev range. For ecodriving in the city, the old 60hp lump is IMO a better engine.
 
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re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Well it depends what people consider a flatspot. My 500 can pull up hills in 5th that needed 3rd when it was new. Every once in a while I'll pull out and not give it enough wellie and it's not very responsive.
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

I am now thinking it could be connected to the start stop system and the switch on the clutch pedal.The clutch pedal seized up last week and this was caused by the pedal being out of adjustment.The car is now loads better than it was.I am going to start driving it with the stop start off and see how it goes.
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

I am now thinking it could be connected to the start stop system and the switch on the clutch pedal.The clutch pedal seized up last week and this was caused by the pedal being out of adjustment.The car is now loads better than it was.I am going to start driving it with the stop start off and see how it goes.

Interesting. If the S/S system began to initiate the engine shutdown procedure it would certainly cause one heck of a flat spot.

Please keep us posted as to whether disabling S/S cures your flat spot issue.
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Interesting. If the S/S system began to initiate the engine shutdown procedure it would certainly cause one heck of a flat spot.

Seems unlikely as three parameters would not be met. Clutch pos. Gear pos. and road speed, only one can be affected by the clutch pedal.
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

If I press the throttle down when in neutral and clutch up it will rev to 3000rpm and die when the SS kicks in.I wonder if this is happening when the clutch is raised when setting off,hence the brief loss of power.
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

I very much doubt this. I really don't think it's s&s
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

If I press the throttle down when in neutral and clutch up it will rev to 3000rpm and die when the SS kicks in.I wonder if this is happening when the clutch is raised when setting off,hence the brief loss of power.

I had just the same happen to me today in my Panda. When I first set off from cold everything was fine, the car behaved so well I began to wonder what I have been complaining about. I drove about half a mile, stopped for around 20 minutes, pulled into a junction to turn round and, as I started to pull away, the engine just died down to around 500 revs. I put my foot on the clutch and the revs went up to about 1500 and then surged up and down two or three times before sorting itself out. It was then fine for the short journey back (there is no stop/start on the Panda).
 
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re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Thanks David Bliss, I was due to put down a deposit on a new 1.2 Panda Easy today, I'll wait for the time being. I have the 1.1 Active engine in a 2010 at the moment, but would like a new car.

306maxi I don't know what your problem is - you don't even own a new car with the 69hp engine. David compared the new and old after discovering that the new one is unpredictable / slow / dangerous in traffic. Maybe in Wales you're good with that, but as a city car 0-40-0 bursts are 95% of driving.

David's insights are far more valuable than someone who bought a car 5 years ago.
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

I do own a car with the 69bhp engine so you can take a flying jump, cheers.

I never said there wasn't an issue, I merely like to take a sceptical approach to things rather than making assumptions which can turn out to be wrong later on.

Anyway I have an old school 60bhp euro 4 equipped panda and a newer euro5/6 compliant 500. Next time think before opening your mouth.
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

306maxi - OK I'll bite - how old is your 69bhp engined car?
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

I do own a car with the 69bhp engine so you can take a flying jump, cheers.

I never said there wasn't an issue, I merely like to take a sceptical approach to things rather than making assumptions which can turn out to be wrong later on.

Anyway I have an old school 60bhp euro 4 equipped panda and a newer euro5/6 compliant 500. Next time think before opening your mouth.

I think you should take heed of your own advice there 306maxi... 'think before opening your mouth'

You are one cynical human being.

Whom is constantly logged onto this forum (do you not work?) ready to berate everyones comments!
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

danyel3 - quite - his 21k posts and bullying manner drown out what could actually be useful information.

I want to buy a new car. There seems to be an issue with cars built in the last year or so. I just hope people like David Bliss who actually bought a car recently continue to post as their updates are very gratefully received.
 
I think you should take heed of your own advice there 306maxi... 'think before opening your mouth'

You are one cynical human being.

Whom is constantly logged onto this forum (do you not work?) ready to berate everyones comments!
Cynical? Wtf?

What would it matter whether I was jobless or the MD of a company?

For some inexplicable reason you've chosen to make a personal attack? Why?
 
danyel3 - quite - his 21k posts and bullying manner drown out what could actually be useful information.

I want to buy a new car. There seems to be an issue with cars built in the last year or so. I just hope people like David Bliss who actually bought a car recently continue to post as their updates are very gratefully received.

Oh dear god. You'll fine that I'm far more knowledgeable about 500's and Panda's than most on here.

I choose to take a sceptical approach to things because I find that jumping to conclusions (no matter how sensible they might seem) just ends up resulting in people getting the wrong idea.

There is no practical reason why the 1.2 would need to be modified for euro 6 emissions, so to assume that this is the cause of the issues is possibly going to lead people down a dead end. I'm not saying that it hasn't been changed, but I'm saying that we shouldn't assume that it has been changed...
 
306maxi - OK I'll bite - how old is your 69bhp engined car?

Do we know if that even matters? Why not start a poll to try and gather some information as to whether the issue is limited to just 2014 cars or not.
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

I give up. It's like trying to have a conversation with Baldrick.

Hoping that others who have recently bought 1.2l 500s and Pandas continue to contribute...
 
re: Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response & Hill Start Issues

Sorry for posting a slightly idiotic question, but I don't want to re-read several pages of childish arguing to try and find a few nuggets of information.

Am I right in saying that it is theorised the 'flat spot' issue is a problem with '14 plate 1.2L 500s in their trim variants? Specifically, the 500s with the 69hp 1.2L 8v with S&S?

I have a '63 plate 1.2 lounge and haven't detected this issue in circa 6k of mileage to date. I can happily floor it off the lights from neutral without any hiccups in power delivery or drops in torque.
 
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