OP
OP
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General Would you swap?
- Thread starter IJK
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General Would you swap?
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I propose a simple change to the legislation:
All diesel exhaust shall be vented into the cabin of the car itself, not the car behind.
That would quickly solve the problem
I would not blame the dealers for not telling customers about potential DPF issues. I have yet to see a single factory brochure or website mention that DPFs are unsuitable for short journeys. It's an indusrty wide conspiracy. Sure it's mentioned in the handbook, but who has ever read one prior to purchase, even though it really would be a good idea?
All diesel exhaust shall be vented into the cabin of the car itself, not the car behind.
That would quickly solve the problem
I would not blame the dealers for not telling customers about potential DPF issues. I have yet to see a single factory brochure or website mention that DPFs are unsuitable for short journeys. It's an indusrty wide conspiracy. Sure it's mentioned in the handbook, but who has ever read one prior to purchase, even though it really would be a good idea?
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How would they all have them NOW though? You can't flick a switch an magic them onto them all of a sudden.
Regarding generators etc needing them, that's getting a tad silly, as they're not the biggest polluters, and on small generators can't physically be fitted. Wouldn't surprise me if larger industrial units will eventually have them though.
It's no different to catalytic converters, they've been around over 2 decades now, but not fitted to any push along petrol lawn mower etc.
It's a good job it's Christmas. Words can't express the way I feel about a statement like this.
Well, actually they can, but if I were to post them on a public forum, I'd likely be banned.
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They actually do put them on some big diesel generators, there was a very good "how it's made" showing how they are put togethor a few weeks ago. These ones had an electrical regeneration system which seemed like quite a clever option.
Just the poor off the motorist getting hit first, I think the major issues with dpf are on the way down anyway it seems simple enough tech and I am sure manufacturers are learning fast how to recalibrate for better performance and reliability
MOT Special Notice 01-14. Effective 16 February.
Concerns DPF's/CAT's
The notice doesn't actually say very much. The VDSA know they have a serious issue here and I suspect this notice will get updated in due course once they have a list of all of the vehicles that had DPF's/CAT's fitted as stock equipment. I suspect too, they will be busy devising appropriate methods of testing ECU's to detect DPF deletes and the like.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-special-notice-01-14
Bottom line to all diesel owners out there whose vehicle is supposed to be fitted with a DPF. If it aint there, it will fail the MOT and quite possibly legal sanctions could follow as technically it renders the vehicle uninsurable for road use. Reading through car forums, lots of people seemingly still intent on sticking two fingers up and claiming that MOT testers will never know if the DPF has been 'cored' and rubbishing claims that the insurance aspect would be affected.
I think a definite word of caution should go out there to anyone considering buying a second hand diesel car. Make sure you get a statement in writing from the dealer or private seller that the DPF or CAT is still intact and I would go so far as to have a proper inspection done if there is any doubt. I fear there will be some who will get stung buying a lemon, most likely in the private market. I suspect too that all decent, honest second hand car dealers will be checking very thoroughly their forecourt stock prior to making a sale.
Concerns DPF's/CAT's
The notice doesn't actually say very much. The VDSA know they have a serious issue here and I suspect this notice will get updated in due course once they have a list of all of the vehicles that had DPF's/CAT's fitted as stock equipment. I suspect too, they will be busy devising appropriate methods of testing ECU's to detect DPF deletes and the like.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-special-notice-01-14
Bottom line to all diesel owners out there whose vehicle is supposed to be fitted with a DPF. If it aint there, it will fail the MOT and quite possibly legal sanctions could follow as technically it renders the vehicle uninsurable for road use. Reading through car forums, lots of people seemingly still intent on sticking two fingers up and claiming that MOT testers will never know if the DPF has been 'cored' and rubbishing claims that the insurance aspect would be affected.
I think a definite word of caution should go out there to anyone considering buying a second hand diesel car. Make sure you get a statement in writing from the dealer or private seller that the DPF or CAT is still intact and I would go so far as to have a proper inspection done if there is any doubt. I fear there will be some who will get stung buying a lemon, most likely in the private market. I suspect too that all decent, honest second hand car dealers will be checking very thoroughly their forecourt stock prior to making a sale.
Removing a DPF from a diesel car, where one was originally fitted, renders the vehicle unroadworthy.
It is an offence to sell an unroadworthy car unless the seller makes it clear to the purchaser that the vehicle is not roadworthy. This applies equally to private and trade sales.
If anyone (trade or private individual) sells a diesel car to use on the road from which the DPF has been removed, they are committing an offence and could be prosecuted and fined up to £5000.
Innocent buyers of such cars would have a clear legal case in Court to obtain a full refund with costs. Provided they brought their case within 6 months of purchase, the burden of proof would be on the seller to show that they had informed the buyer the vehicle was unroadworthy at the time of original sale.
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Personally I think they should publicly execute the first dozen or so people found who are found to have removed the dpf's from their cars, cat's I'm not so fussed about as CO is only bad in large amounts, ie when you're feeding the exhaust back into the car whereas any particulate matter is really more than you'd want.
I think it would still go back to finding out who removed the dpf. I think a trader who was selling a car in good faith which had a cored dpf would have a case against the person who sold it to them.
They might well have, but they would still have to reimburse the purchaser of the car while they sorted it out.
If you sell an unroadworthy car in good faith you are still selling an unroadworthy car and could still be prosecuted, fined and face a civil claim for damages from the purchaser.
The real villains of course are the workshops carrying out DPF removal services & IMO they are the ones that should be the target of enforcement.
Amazingly some are still advertising their services and a quick google of 'dpf removal' will bring up a number of sponsored ads.
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A decent honest seller won't have a leg to stand on at all if they haven't checked their stock properly. They could claim all they liked that they 'didn't know' the DPF had been cored, the fact is, they have to check and if that involves putting the car up on a ramp and getting an independent inspection done before they take a vehicle in part exchange or just selling on, then that is what they will have to do. Ignorance is no defence in law. I wouldn't be surprised in the future, that anyone selling their vehicle on through dealers, will have to sign a legal agreement that they have not tampered with the vehicle by removing the DPF or CAT.
I wonder actually where car auctions are going to stand on this? How many traders will be actively checking their intended purchase before they bid?
Thanks for this thread....I was considering putting an offer in on a diesel trekking tomorrow morning instead of a lounge twin air but this has made me think twice (unless something has changed with the dpr's since?) as it will primarily be for very short journeys into town....maybe only doing a 20 mile run once every 6 weeks or so.
I guess you'd all say it's not worth the risk.
I guess you'd all say it's not worth the risk.
Go twin air. Finding this thread will have been the best thing you've done prior to purchase!
Suzuki has just dropped the Fiat 1.3 Diesel from the Swift range. Not enough people wanted it, and quite right too given the relatively poor economy of this engine and the added upfront cost.
