General New winter tyre thread

[RobW]

swapped wheels over on the Black Bravo earlier all went ok except bolts very tight to undo so applied copper grease to stop them seizing up next time

lubed bolts also makes sure the torque applied is used to actually tighten the bolt and not just overcome friction

 

[deeyup]

I see the Nokian D3 won the latest Auto Express winter tyre test. With The Conti TS850 second.

The conti did better in the wet, so may be a better UK tyre? The Nokian was the best dry braker

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/66645/winter-tyres-test-reviews-and-prices-2013

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I see the Nokian D3 won the latest Auto Express winter tyre test. With The Conti TS850 second.

The conti did better in the wet, so may be a better UK tyre? The Nokian was the best dry braker

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/66645/winter-tyres-test-reviews-and-prices-2013

Don't forget though that is only relevant for that tyre size, same tyres in 14's for example could get completely different scores.

 

[deeyup]

Don't forget though that is only relevant for that tyre size, same tyres in 14's for example could get completely different scores.

Didn't think of that.

Incidentally, Auto Express did a test of winter tyres on a 2wd, versus summer tyres on a 4x4.
A lot of people think that having a 4x4 is all you need in snow.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

A lot of people think that having a 4x4 is all you need in snow.

Yes, I enjoy that arguement - so whys a 4x4 better then winter tyres then.....Because all 4 wheels go so you don't get stuck........4wd doesn't assist much more than 2wd when it comes to stopping though, or loosing all traction on ice I point out.

 

[306maxi]

It is prudent to point out that if a tyre wins a test in one size then it could be cack in another size. The risk of this is minimal with better brands.

 

[RobW]

It is prudent to point out that if a tyre wins a test in one size then it could be cack in another size. The risk of this is minimal with better brands.

it's an interesting point, i bet neither the manufacturer or test house tests all sizes, they probably pick 1 or 2 common sizes and apply that test result/approval across a larger range

 

[306maxi]

I know of one manufacturer that tests most if not all sizes

 

[stevehg]

4wd doesn't assist much more than 2wd when it comes to stopping though, or loosing all traction on ice I point out.

Not quite correct there, 4x4 will understeer/oversteer less, engine braking is on all four wheels, so you can have slightly more control when slowing down and on slippery descents. If, on a steep slippery descent you start to lose control and the back starts overtaking and sliding out, a 4x4 will come under control quicker as you accelerate on all four wheels. Downside is that most 4x4's tend to be heavier so more mass to stop.

As for the winter tyres vs 4x4 what's the point of this argument. There is no doubt that a car with winter tyres will outperform one on summers in snowy/icy conditions. However, it costs roughly the same to fit winter tyres to a 4x4 car as a fwd car, so it doesn't have to be either or.

Lastly, you can use the benefits of 4x4 all year round. I certainly didn't buy my 4x4 estate for the 3-4 days a year I may use it in snow.

Cheers

Steve

 

[deeyup]

Not quite correct there, 4x4 will understeer/oversteer less, engine braking is on all four wheels, so you can have slightly more control when slowing down and on slippery descents. If, on a steep slippery descent you start to lose control and the back starts overtaking and sliding out, a 4x4 will come under control quicker as you accelerate on all four wheels. Downside is that most 4x4's tend to be heavier so more mass to stop.

As for the winter tyres vs 4x4 what's the point of this argument. There is no doubt that a car with winter tyres will outperform one on summers in snowy/icy conditions. However, it costs roughly the same to fit winter tyres to a 4x4 car as a fwd car, so it doesn't have to be either or.

Lastly, you can use the benefits of 4x4 all year round. I certainly didn't buy my 4x4 estate for the 3-4 days a year I may use it in snow.

Cheers

Steve

If you watch the video linked to earlier, it shows all scenarios,
2wd and 4wd with summers, 2wd with winters which beat the 4wd with summers, then 4wd with winters.
Unsurprisingly the 4wd with winters was the best.

 

[306maxi]

Not quite correct there, 4x4 will understeer/oversteer less, engine braking is on all four wheels, so you can have slightly more control when slowing down and on slippery descents. If, on a steep slippery descent you start to lose control and the back starts overtaking and sliding out, a 4x4 will come under control quicker as you accelerate on all four wheels. Downside is that most 4x4's tend to be heavier so more mass to stop.

As for the winter tyres vs 4x4 what's the point of this argument. There is no doubt that a car with winter tyres will outperform one on summers in snowy/icy conditions. However, it costs roughly the same to fit winter tyres to a 4x4 car as a fwd car, so it doesn't have to be either or.

Lastly, you can use the benefits of 4x4 all year round. I certainly didn't buy my 4x4 estate for the 3-4 days a year I may use it in snow.

Cheers

Steve

The point is that the vast majority of people stupidly believe that if they have a 4x4 then they can get through all weathers and not need better tyres to use in the snow.


You are correct that a 4x4 with winter tyres is the best option, last winter I chucked the winters on the Panda and it was astonishingly good, there's a steep long hill with hairpins on it near here that gets closed when there's any snow or ice, it's a 33% gradient and last year the Panda made it up in a couple of inches of snow when the road was "closed".


Yes you may have engine braking on all 4 wheels, but when those wheels have little/no grip then you aren't going to be stopping anytime soon. 4wd doesn't give you any extra lateral grip so you have just as little lateral grip in the corners as a 2wd car on summer tyres.


At the moment we own three 4x4's and a 2wd car, if it snows I'll be driving the 2wd 500 on winter tyres

 

[306maxi]

This is probably the best advertisement for winter tyres





Incidently 4x4 won't help you in any of these tests other than the traction test.

 

[suzey]

Am a tyre numpty and would appreciate some help please

I need to buy two new front tyres for my Fiat 500 (1.2 Lounge). Would it be worth me buying winter tyres due to the time of year....and if I do, can you only use them in winter? Also, it would mean my rear tyres would be normal would I have to change them all to winter tyres?

Many thanks

 

[dave]

Am a tyre numpty and would appreciate some help please

I need to buy two new front tyres for my Fiat 500 (1.2 Lounge). Would it be worth me buying winter tyres due to the time of year....and if I do, can you only use them in winter? Also, it would mean my rear tyres would be normal would I have to change them all to winter tyres?

Many thanks

you need 4 winters, most people buy a separate set of steel wheels to fit winters to, you will need to put summers back on in the spring.

 

[suzey]

Many thanks Dave

 

[frupi]

suzey,

I'm not sure what the winter weather is like in your neck of the woods, but where I am, winter tyres do make a lot of sense. I'm originally from Dorset and if I were still living there, I know I wouldn't bother with them because in all the years I lived there right next to the sea, snow was rare, ice wasn't really a huge issue because there was enough salt in the air and on the road for it not to cause a real problem.

I personally wouldn't buy two new winter tyres leaving two 'summer' tyres on. If you are going to go down the road of using winters, I'd recommend them all round and buying a complete set of winter wheels from mytyres or similar, so you can just swap from summer wheels to winter wheels when the time comes. Some people don't have the storage space though, but if you have a garage, then it shouldn't be an issue.

If you just end up sticking normal tyres on the car then there's certainly a choice out there. Three months before we got rid of our old POP, I had to buy two new tyres for it. I bought a brand called EVENT. They were £35 each fitted/balanced and they went on the back of the car. We had no issues with them whatsoever. They were 2013 stock and what I mean by that is, when you do go to buy new tyres, ask to see the manufacturing date code on the tyre. Ideally, they shouldn't be any older than six months from manufacture. If the tyre shop you use is decent, they shouldn't even quibble about it, but whatever you do, don't be fooled or fobbed off into parting with money for rubber that is over 12 months old because that just indicates a slow stock turnover.

Dont' forget too, tyres do need a couple of hundred miles wear in period. People forget that, so no hard braking, be careful in the wet etc.

 

[ahmett]

suzey,

I'm not sure what the winter weather is like in your neck of the woods, but where I am, winter tyres do make a lot of sense. I'm originally from Dorset and if I were still living there, I know I wouldn't bother with them because in all the years I lived there right next to the sea, snow was rare, ice wasn't really a huge issue because there was enough salt in the air and on the road for it not to cause a real problem.

I personally wouldn't buy two new winter tyres leaving two 'summer' tyres on. If you are going to go down the road of using winters, I'd recommend them all round and buying a complete set of winter wheels from mytyres or similar, so you can just swap from summer wheels to winter wheels when the time comes. Some people don't have the storage space though, but if you have a garage, then it shouldn't be an issue.

If you just end up sticking normal tyres on the car then there's certainly a choice out there. Three months before we got rid of our old POP, I had to buy two new tyres for it. I bought a brand called EVENT. They were £35 each fitted/balanced and they went on the back of the car. We had no issues with them whatsoever. They were 2013 stock and what I mean by that is, when you do go to buy new tyres, ask to see the manufacturing date code on the tyre. Ideally, they shouldn't be any older than six months from manufacture. If the tyre shop you use is decent, they shouldn't even quibble about it, but whatever you do, don't be fooled or fobbed off into parting with money for rubber that is over 12 months old because that just indicates a slow stock turnover.

Dont' forget too, tyres do need a couple of hundred miles wear in period. People forget that, so no hard braking, be careful in the wet etc.

I thought it was like 20 miles wear in period

 

[frupi]

I thought it was like 20 miles wear in period

The recommended run in period for new tyres is between 150-200 miles, preferably on dry roads, which clearly, in the winter, can be difficult! We were lucky with this new TA. Our tyres on the 15 inch alloys have been properly run in with the 150 mile journey home, all in the dry.

New tyres have a thin oily coating – a mixture of oils from the rubber and a release agent to prevent the tyre sticking to the manufacturing mould. Until this wears off the handling will feel different, especially in the wet. Source The AA.

 

[306maxi]

Am a tyre numpty and would appreciate some help please

I need to buy two new front tyres for my Fiat 500 (1.2 Lounge). Would it be worth me buying winter tyres due to the time of year....and if I do, can you only use them in winter? Also, it would mean my rear tyres would be normal would I have to change them all to winter tyres?

Many thanks

You don't NEED to take them off in the spring. Continental advice that if people are going to use only one set a year that they make them winters. I've driven through the summer on a set of winters and for the average driver they would be absolutely fine, they're probably far better than a crappy set of mismatched budget eastern European or Chinese set of tyres like most people seem to run about with these days.


I seem to remember that you've only done something like 19k miles in the last 4 years? Although I'm the biggest winter tyre evangelist about, I wouldn't advise you to buy two sets of tyres as tyres generally only have a useful life of 5 or 6 years or so and you'll end up with tyres which have loads of tread, but have other issues.


If it were me in your shoes I'd do one of the below


1. Replace your front tyres with another pair of summer tyres and if it snows, don't drive your car.


2. Fit a full set of winter tyres in place of your current tyres. Leave them on throughout the year and at your mileage they'll probably last you another 3 or 4 years anyway. I tootled about in my 500 through the summer on winter tyres with no issue


3. Fit a full set of all season tyres. It won't be quite so good in the snow and you may get another 6-12 months out of a set over

fitting winters.


In all honesty shelling out for another set of wheels and tyres and then having someone fit them twice a year is a bit silly for someone doing such low mileage. I seem to remember we got our 500's at more or less the same time, in your time with your car you've done 19k miles and I've just racked up 60k miles and have recently fitted my second set of winters.




Options 1 or 2 would be my picks, if you're stuck for a while I guess you could always eat a Spaniel

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

:yeahthat: personally I'd go for option 2