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Technical battery charging - stop / start system

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Technical battery charging - stop / start system

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varesecrazy

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Hi, I cannot find a thorough answer - so I'm asking here..!!;)

I would like to pulse-charge my TA's battery ,
but am a little wary of the correct connection -reinstallation sequence,
( as it seems it's beyond my " suppLYING dealer"),

I can do the removal of BOTH terminal leads.. and removal of battery itself
( if necessary),

However after charging overnight ( until green light is on charger), then standing for a few hours,
I'm aiming to reconnect the RED - positive lead , :)

then tradition says reconnect the BLACK - Negative lead..!!??, ;)
and I SHOULD be good to go..,:idea:

is there another method / sequence,

any other tricks / sequences required,

thanks - as always, :worship:
Charlie
 
Normally disconnect black (earth) first, and reconnect last.
After charging, leave at least 10 minutes before fitting, to allow any hydrogen gas to escape before you create a spark.

1. What is pulse-charging?
2. What is a TA?
3. Why do you need to charge the battery off the car, the car's alternator should be enough.?
 
Portland bill, perhaps best to know what you're talking about before you give people answers.....
 
portland_bill said:
Normally disconnect black (earth) first, and reconnect last.
After charging, leave at least 10 minutes before fitting, to allow any hydrogen gas to escape before you create a spark.

1. What is pulse-charging?
2. What is a TA?
3. Why do you need to charge the battery off the car, the car's alternator should be enough.?
Click to expand...


1 a modern way to deep charge a old / drained / sulphated battery...

depending on the charge unit.. it pulses/ cycles the voltage and ampage to desulphate the lead plates and lets the battery adsorb the charge better....

http://www.mpoweruk.com/chargers.htm

2 TA = Twin air 2 cylinder turbo charged fiat engine...


3 Alternators can not recover a deeply discharged battery (deep charge) :)
 
306maxi said:
Portland bill, perhaps best to know what you're talking about before you give people answers.....
Click to expand...

Another one on here being rude. What is it with you people. If you have nothing positive to contribute, keep quiet.

My answer, given before the questions is still correct and valid. Yours, is of no value to anyone.

Andy Monty, thank you for your reply, much appreciated. Still leaves the question as to why the battery became discharged, hopefully not itself a symptom of another problem.
 
Last edited:
portland_bill said:
Andy Monty, thank you for your reply, much appreciated. Still leaves the question as to why the battery became discharged, hopefully not itself a symptom of another problem.
Click to expand...


As stated in title / header,

I want to help-out the stop/start system by having the battery fully charged,

car goes weeks at a time without cutting in at all then does a day when it DOES switch engine off - only to restart in ..3 SECONDS..!!,repeat every stop.., :bang:
rediculous scenario - which cannot help the battery state - or save ANY significant fuel..,

any further advice on reconnection procedure?, ;)

Thanks.
 
Stop/start is complicated. It has to monitor lots of things and keep them all happy. All electrical loads are monitored. I only experienced this system for a short time on a 500, but now have it on a new Fiesta and this week was driving a BMW 1-series with it. They all work a bit differently, but the basics are, engine must be fully warm, car must have been driven over 3mph since last stop, battery charge state above a minimum level. For most of the drive in the BMW, we thought the system was off, then it started working.
Once the engine stops, it will restart if the aircon demands the compressor to work, or any other electrical loads are likely to drop the reserve too low. It also restarts after a maximum time, whether you want it to or not. Scares the learners a treat.
So a lot will depend on the sort of use it is getting. If you are doing a short-ish commute, it may just never be ready. A longer drive might make better use of it. Have a think about your journeys and the circumstances when it worked and try to find a pattern. Starting out with your fully charged battery will at least rule one issue out.

With such a complicated system it is difficult to determine whether it is working properly or not. It may be ok.

Reconnecting battery.
Switch off charger.
Leave for 10 minutes or more if possible before disconnecting. Disconnect negative lead first, then positive.
Fit to car and connect positive (red) lead, then negative (black) lead.
Don't smoke near the battery.

When lead/acid batteries are charged they give off a little hydrogen. I have seen the top lift off an old black rubber battery with the force of an explosion. Recently my brother placed his trickle charger on top of the battery overnight, found bits everywhere the following morning. There's a reason the charger has long leads, keep it as far away as possible.

Generally the electrolyte in the battery is sufficient for its life, but if you charge it off the car often, this may drop due to the hydrogen given off. Whilst all are claimed to be sealed, most just have very snug lids. If charging often, gently prise off the lids and top up if necessary with distilled water.
 
Last edited:
scout500 said:
Can this be rectified by us mere mortals or does it have to go back to a dealer to 'reset' the system?
Click to expand...

system is self adaptive

take battery off fully charge it as per the link above the car will then learn what a healthy battery does and should work but if the battery is old or tired and it drops below 12.72vdc after 10 mins the system will disable itself
 
Andy Monty said:
system is self adaptive

take battery off fully charge it as per the link above the car will then learn what a healthy battery does and should work but if the battery is old or tired and it drops below 12.72vdc after 10 mins the system will disable itself
Click to expand...

Makes sense (y) , I'll remember this when the battery gives up on my car :)
 
portland_bill said:
Stop/start is complicated. It has to monitor lots of things and keep them all happy. All electrical loads are monitored. I only experienced this system for a short time on a 500, but now have it on a new Fiesta and this week was driving a BMW 1-series with it. They all work a bit differently, but the basics are, engine must be fully warm, car must have been driven over 3mph since last stop, battery charge state above a minimum level. For most of the drive in the BMW, we thought the system was off, then it started working.
Once the engine stops, it will restart if the aircon demands the compressor to work, or any other electrical loads are likely to drop the reserve too low. It also restarts after a maximum time, whether you want it to or not. Scares the learners a treat.
Click to expand...

Not on the 500, unless you have ATC, and even then, only when there's a difference of greater than 5 degrees between the in-car temp, and the temp set point. Those with manual air conditioning will NEVER have the engine start in order to run the a/c compressor.

portland_bill said:
So a lot will depend on the sort of use it is getting. If you are doing a short-ish commute, it may just never be ready. A longer drive might make better use of it. Have a think about your journeys and the circumstances when it worked and try to find a pattern. Starting out with your fully charged battery will at least rule one issue out.

With such a complicated system it is difficult to determine whether it is working properly or not. It may be ok.
Click to expand...

It's really not that complex. There's just a few variables, which can appear contradictory or confusing.

portland_bill said:
Reconnecting battery.
Switch off charger.
Leave for 10 minutes or more if possible before disconnecting. Disconnect negative lead first, then positive.
Fit to car and connect positive (red) lead, then negative (black) lead.
Don't smoke near the battery.

When lead/acid batteries are charged they give off a little hydrogen. I have seen the top lift off an old black rubber battery with the force of an explosion. Recently my brother placed his trickle charger on top of the battery overnight, found bits everywhere the following morning. There's a reason the charger has long leads, keep it as far away as possible.

Generally the electrolyte in the battery is sufficient for its life, but if you charge it off the car often, this may drop due to the hydrogen given off. Whilst all are claimed to be sealed, most just have very snug lids. If charging often, gently prise off the lids and top up if necessary with distilled water.
Click to expand...

Good advice in terms of charging, people forget they have hydrogen bombs under the bonnet of their car. One other piece of advice would be not to use a constant current charger (the old style ones that buzz like mad), as they'll generally not fully charge, or damage modern lead/acid batteries. Use a proper switched mode variable current/voltage charger (like a CTEK).
 
If the battery was discharged when first used it is probably scrap.
I spent some time working for a major parts supplier and we did some research into our battery warranty claims. If the battery is no more than 6 months old when first used, life expectancy is 5-7 years. If over 6 months old and has not been checked monthly and charged if necessary, the battery is unlikely to last more than 2 years. My own Fiat ownership has mirrored this. A Panda 750, first registered weeks after production, original battery still going strong 6 years later. Panda 1000 CLX, similar story, original battery still working well at 7 years. Seicento Suite, 7 months old when first registered, battery died suddenly just on 2 years. Current Panda, just replaced original battery at 7 years.
With TwinAirs being in demand, this is unlikely to be the problem as time from manufacture to hitting the road will be short.
 
scout500 said:
Can this be rectified by us mere mortals or does it have to go back to a dealer to 'reset' the system?
Click to expand...

As said, to reset the IBS, take the battery off completely, bench charge it with a good quality charger, and then reconnect, positive first, leaving the negative lead disconnected from the false terminal post, then connect the IBS/main neg terminal, before replacing the neg lead to the false terminal post.

Shouldn't need to do this often (if at all if the system was properly initialised with a charged battery), the system will then take at least 9 hours and a few starts before it'll calculate a basic SOC reading from the battery, it'll take several days before the full readings are calculated based upon the battery behaviour.
 
Morning all,

I have a smart charger from Lidl which I bought a little while back but have never used.

I read this thread as I would like to try and get S/S working in my 62 plate Punto - I am 95% certain it is battery related as there are never any faults/warning lights coming up - it only ever works if the engine is warm enough and I stall the engine, telling me to depress the clutch.

I would prefer to have the battery remaining in the car as I have a close enough power source to the car, and frankly I don't feel confident enough to mess around with it too much!

I'm aware that there is a potential issue with frying the intelligent battery sensor if I don't do it properly, so just wondering if a very lovely person on here might be able to do a quick summary/list of what I need to do. Pictures would be even better if at all possible(y):)
 
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