Technical car pulling to left

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Technical car pulling to left

goffboy

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Since getting our wee 1.4 Lounge it has always pulled to the left. have changed tyres and had tracking done many times (in various garages). my mechanic has had a look over it and can't see anything amiss and it passed MOT with flying colours.:bang:

Tracking helps for a wee while but before long it's pulling to left again. Any suggestions or known faults that I should look for?

Thanks
 
Since getting our wee 1.4 Lounge it has always pulled to the left.

Does it pull consistently to the left, or is it pulling toward the camber of the road? Find a very quiet, straight & obviously cambered road & try driving in the middle, on the left & on the right & see if there is any difference. I've had at least one car which was particularly camber-sensitive & could easily have been misdiagnosed - it usually pulled left, but ran true on a dead flat runway & pulled right when driven on the wrong side of the road! That said, the 500 is not a particularly camber-sensitive design.

could well be the many pot holes on Irish roads!

I doubt things are that simple. Mistracking alone would be unlikely to account for the symptoms you describe. I've adjusted loads of mistracked cars which were wearing tyres alarmingly yet still ran absolutely straight.

Have you had the car since new? If not, I would be very suspicious that badly repaired accident damage has left the car out of true.

Another thought is that it's possible to fit the top mounts backwards - this has happened on at least one car out of the factory - and if this has been done on one side only, it might cause the car to pull left.

It's pointless to just keep adjusting the tracking - you need to find the real cause of the problem and a full 4-wheel geometry check done by a competent garage would be my suggestion in taking this forward.
 
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Tyres can also be camber sensitive... The Goodyears I had went with the camber much more than the Hankooks I fitted for the winter. Also make sure tyre pressure is the same across the axles.
Tracking, unless excessively out, will not fix 'pulling'
Also check rears to determine thrust angle. You need garage with a really good system that can determine this.
Hope this helps.
 
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Does it pull consistently to the left, or is it pulling toward the camber of the road? Find a very quiet, straight & obviously cambered road & try driving in the middle, on the left & on the right & see if there is any difference. I've had at least one car which was particularly camber-sensitive & could easily have been misdiagnosed - it usually pulled left, but ran true on a dead flat runway & pulled right when driven on the wrong side of the road! That said, the 500 is not a particularly camber-sensitive design.



I doubt things are that simple. Mistracking alone would be unlikely to account for the symptoms you describe. I've adjusted loads of mistracked cars which were wearing tyres alarmingly yet still ran absolutely straight.

Have you had the car since new? If not, I would be very suspicious that badly repaired accident damage has left the car out of true.

Another thought is that it's possible to fit the top mounts backwards - this has happened on at least one car out of the factory - and if this has been done on one side only, it might cause the car to pull left.

It's pointless to just keep adjusting the tracking - you need to find the real cause of the problem and a full 4-wheel alignment done by a competent garage would be my suggestion in taking this forward.
yes car pulls constantly to left, regardless of camber of road - though it's not as bad on totally flat roads, obviously.
car was secondhand when i got it. no obvious signs of damage, but will have another good look around it to see if anything looks suspicious.
have had 4 wheel alignment done and again it temporarily negates the issue but it never takes too long for problem to reoccur. and always make sure pressures are as handbook states.
it's getting rather tedious!
 
have had 4 wheel alignment done and again it temporarily negates the issue but it never takes too long for problem to reoccur.

Sorry goffboy, I should have said 'geometry check', not alignment, in my earlier post - I've corrected this now.

This article explains the difference. Check this site out too.

From what you've posted thus far, I'd say your car might have a camber problem. Go find somewhere that uses the Hunter alignment system & post the results. Expect to pay in the region of £70-£90 for the geometry check; any necessary repairs (as IIRC the only thing you can adjust on the standard 500 setup is the front wheel toe) will be on top of this.
 
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yes car pulls constantly to left, regardless of camber of road - though it's not as bad on totally flat roads, obviously.
car was secondhand when i got it. no obvious signs of damage, but will have another good look around it to see if anything looks suspicious.
have had 4 wheel alignment done and again it temporarily negates the issue but it never takes too long for problem to reoccur. and always make sure pressures are as handbook states.
it's getting rather tedious!

Hi,
we've found our '04 panda to be VERY easily knocked out of true with the tracking, :bang:

You should notice the steering wheel is no longer "straight-ahead" if it's been knocked out..,
have you tried crossing the white-line and seeing how the opposite road-camber affects things,
MY old Tipo ALWAYS seemed to pull to the left , but trips to France always made it pull to the RIGHT.. so I then regulaly crossed the white line ( where safe / possible) just to check things were still "normal",
Charlie
 
Sorry goffboy, I should have said 'geometry check', not alignment, in my earlier post - I've corrected this now.

This article explains the difference. Check this site out too.

From what you've posted thus far, I'd say your car might have a camber problem. Go find somewhere that uses the Hunter alignment system & post the results. Expect to pay in the region of £70-£90 for the geometry check; any necessary repairs (as IIRC the only thing you can adjust on the standard 500 setup is the front wheel toe) will be on top of this.
cheers jrkitching. have car booked in for geometry test/alignment with Hunter equipment on Monday. let's see what that reveals...

eamonn
 
Don't assume that just because it's gone through the MOT there isn't a problem, I once had a car suspension collapse 2 months after it was tested.

My money would be on worn suspension or steering bushes - but which ones is not so easy to spot. Do you get any knocking or clattering sounds when moving along, or does it pull more to one side when accelerating when braking or accelerating? If so then rubber bushes need replacing.

Also don’t rule out a problem with the rear suspension. Particularly check the brakes are not binding. Finally try swapping the tyre around as they could be faulty but not visibly obvious.
 
yes car pulls constantly to left, regardless of camber of road - though it's not as bad on totally flat roads, obviously.
car was secondhand when i got it. no obvious signs of damage, but will have another good look around it to see if anything looks suspicious.
have had 4 wheel alignment done and again it temporarily negates the issue but it never takes too long for problem to reoccur. and always make sure pressures are as handbook states.
it's getting rather tedious!


Lets hope you get a real result from it,

You have not said as much but is it eating front tyres..??,

A friend had a brand new "non-fiat" did ALL of this stuff, and still couldn't get a result.. Dealer eventually called in a "Factory Expert" for the day to study the car.., and the car was transformed - when asked "what did HE find" ,
the dealer replied "NOTHING" , obviously wary of being liable for the 6 front tyres he'd gone through in it's first 20,000 miles.!!

The thought was that a component had been misassembled at the factory,

shame they didn't own-up to it..,
charlie
 
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ok. had the alignment checked this am with Hunter equipment as advised. really helpful guy. he said it was all within tolerance limits but did say that there may be an issue with the steering box - a previous garage did mention that when the steering wheel is dead straight the steering is pointing slightly to one side. this may make sense as the tyres are wearing evenly across the thread despite the pull
anyway here's a copy of the printout, showing before and after measurements.
any thoughts?
Eamonn
500_wheel_alignment_-_25_Mar_2013_001.jpg
 
The 500 doesn't have a steering 'box' it has a steering rack. If the lock is unequal side to side, then it's a classic case of someone (who's not very good at their job) moving the steering wheel to centre it up because the length of each track rod is different as each track rod end hasn't been moved by an equal amount.

This will cause errors in the ackermann angles of the car and cause tyre scrub, as well as a quicker steering response in one direction, whilst being slower in the other.

Your front subframe could do with a bit of a shove (after loosening the bolts) over to the left (facing forward) to help even out the camber too. The caster will cause a power on pull to the right and a braking pull to the left. Might be due to a worn bottom arm (if it changes between readings), or something is bent.
 
Tracking helps for a wee while but before long it's pulling to left again. Any suggestions or known faults that I should look for?

Thanks

I think the clue is here, if adjustments are being made every time, then they're being made to correct wear in a suspension part. When the car is driven, that 'slop' is causing movement which throws the alignment out.

Bottom balljoints are a classic cause of this, as the natural tension in the lower arm bushes can 'hide' any play in them, and there's a technique to partially load the suspension to explore any movement. If the problem still exists, I would be inclined to go to a *proper* suspension alignment place, one that sets up very posh/fully adjustable cars and does nothing else. They will be more likely to give the car a very thorough check out and find what's causing your issue.
 
The 500 doesn't have a steering 'box' it has a steering rack. If the lock is unequal side to side, then it's a classic case of someone (who's not very good at their job) moving the steering wheel to centre it up because the length of each track rod is different as each track rod end hasn't been moved by an equal amount.

This will cause errors in the ackermann angles of the car and cause tyre scrub, as well as a quicker steering response in one direction, whilst being slower in the other.

Your front subframe could do with a bit of a shove (after loosening the bolts) over to the left (facing forward) to help even out the camber too. The caster will cause a power on pull to the right and a braking pull to the left. Might be due to a worn bottom arm (if it changes between readings), or something is bent.

You know, you are the only person I've ever come across who uses the word ackermann! I remember it from my days of racing a R/C buggy!

I agree on all counts, a car doesn't drift out of adjustment all the time like this, there has to be something worn.
 
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