Hi guys,

I’m currently driving a 500 1.2 petrol. My next car will be another 500, but I’m wondering whether I should buy a diesel next. I test drove a Twinair but I found it rather too noisy for my taste, and when accelerating from below 1500rpm it shook like a tractor. So why switch to another engine? First, a tad more power would be welcome on German autobahns; second, fuel economy and extended range; third, diesel is cheaper than petrol over here. And I have a tender foot, I’ve been stalling my engine regularly (read: too dumb to apply the gas pedal appropriately).

My driving pattern is short range interspersed with mid/long range (3x60 miles plus 3x360 miles per month average. I suppose the longer trips would take care of the DPF issue.

So, what would be the cons of a diesel? Is it noisier at 80mph than a 1.2?

What's your annual mileage? Iirc someone worked out the extra cost of the diesel version mean you needs to do 30-35k a year and keep it for at least 5 years or something dilly like that to break even.

If you think the TA is too noisy, forget getting a diesel.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

What's your annual mileage? Iirc someone worked out the extra cost of the diesel version mean you needs to do 30-35k a year and keep it for at least 5 years or something dilly like that to break even.

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In the UK, any increase in fuel economy over the 1.2 will likely be wiped out by the extra cost of diesel - my 1.2 petrol has the lowest fuel cost per mile of any 500 on fuelly.

However, the OP isn't in the UK. If you live in a region where diesel prices are substantially lower than petrol, this changes the economics of ownership considerably. For motorway cruising at 80mph in Germany, I'd give it serious consideration.

A decently long test drive should answer most of your questions.

bgunn said:

If you think the TA is too noisy, forget getting a diesel.

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My next door neighbour has an elderly diesel Vectra. I use it as an alarm clock; on startup, it sounds like an out-of-balance washing machine filled with morris dancing equipment.

What's the difference in performance and economy between the 0.9 TA and the 1.2 ?

Spy said:

What's the difference in performance and economy between the 0.9 TA and the 1.2 ?

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Ignore FIAT's published mpg figures when making the comparison.

If you are primarily interested in performance, buy a TA. If you want (or need) to maximise economy, buy a 1.2.

If you buy a TA and drive for economy, you'll likely be disappointed, and wish you'd bought a 1.2.
If you buy a 1.2 and drive for performance, you'll likely be disappointed, and wish you'd bought a TA.

If you buy a TA and use the performance, the results of most others on here suggest your mpg will be in the low 40's at best.

Ah, I'm on mobile view so didn't see OPs location. Like you say what I've said could well be irrelevant then.

jrkitching said:

However, the OP isn't in the UK. If you live in a region where diesel prices are substantially lower than petrol, this changes the economics of ownership considerably.

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The price differential between the models is probably different in Germany too.

Spy said:

What's the difference in performance and economy between the 0.9 TA and the 1.2 ?

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Reasonable performance difference by all accounts (I've not driven a 1.2, so can't comment), but big difference in economy when driven hard. The TA can deliver decent economy if driven with real care - but it's too damn fun and tempting to be able to keep that up on a constant basis.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Ah, I'm on mobile view so didn't see OPs location. Like you say what I've said could well be irrelevant then.

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Ahh, but it's only irrelevant for the OP! Who knows who else may be reading this, and for them, your point may be right on the money.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

What's your annual mileage? Iirc someone worked out the extra cost of the diesel version mean you needs to do 30-35k a year and keep it for at least 5 years or something dilly like that to break even.

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Annual mileage is upwards of 11.000 miles. Breaking even would have to be compared to any of the options available in Germany with more hp than the 1.2, ie the 1.4, the Twinair, or the 1.3 diesel. The base prices are not that far apart, 14.900€ for the TA, 15.600€ for the 1.4, and 16.600€ for the diesel. Tax is slightly higher for diesels here whereas diesel fuel costs about 10% less than petrol. I love my present car but I could use a little more oomph for the damn autobahn as I hate to have all these (mostly) BMWs and Audis breathing down my neck whenever I overtake a lorry.

jrkitching said:

A decently long test drive should answer most of your questions.

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Well, I’d love to, but that’s why I’m asking, because unfortunately the dealers around me don’t have any diesels to test drive.

Mondaugen said:

Well, I’d love to, but that’s why I’m asking, because unfortunately the dealers around me don’t have any diesels to test drive.

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Bummer.

I wouldn't be comfortable shelling out that kind of money without a proper test drive. Be innovative - find a used one somewhere, pretend you're interested & test drive that. Make sure it's the current 95hp version, though.

bgunn said:

If you think the TA is too noisy, forget getting a diesel.

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Is this from personal experience, and @80mph? Because then I will.

jrkitching said:

Be innovative - find a used one somewhere, pretend you're interested & test drive that. Make sure it's the current 95hp version, though.

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Sounds like a plan. Plan B, though.

Mondaugen said:

Is this from personal experience, and @80mph? Because then I will.

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Not at 80mph as it's illegal

But at low speed yes, and yes a LOT quieter. A small car with a diesel engine just doesn't have sufficient space for the soundproofing and isolation from engine noise.

bgunn said:

Not at 80mph as it's illegal …

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Well, 80mph happens to be the recommended speed on German autobahns on the stretches that don’t have a speed limit. Quite anachronistically, and unfortunately I might add, since it leads to more and unnecessary congestion – traffic flows better with homogeneous speeds. But I can’t change that, only shake my head.

A small car with a diesel engine just doesn't have sufficient space for the soundproofing and isolation from engine noise.

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I suppose the soundproofing, if it exists, would be the same on any configuration of the Fiat 500, no?

Mondaugen said:

Well, 80mph happens to be the recommended speed on German autobahns on the stretches that don’t have a speed limit. Quite anachronistically, and unfortunately I might add, since it leads to more and unnecessary congestion – traffic flows better with homogeneous speeds. But I can’t change that, only shake my head.

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In England - so the same caveat of location applies

Mondaugen said:

I suppose the soundproofing, if it exists, would be the same on any configuration of the Fiat 500, no?

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Not having investigated a diesel car under the bonnet and under the carpet; I can't say either way I'm afraid.

Personally, unless you're doing mega miles, I don't think a diesel ever stacks up against a Petrol - but I don't like clanky canal boat engines, so I admit my bias!

In response to the OP, whenever I reach 70 in my 1.3MJ, (not often as my ears pop and I get nosebleeds above 60......) I have no awareness of engine noise whatever.

Road noise yes. I would suggest the OP not to consider noise an issue re the diesel.