Hi all

Firstly, being an infrequent user and essentially a newbie, sorry if I've broken the guidelines! But I wanted to start a new thread for this sad news, even though there are some others mentioning issues they have had with 'young' Twinair-engined 500s.

My shiny 62-plate Lounge Twinair came from Fiat Marylebone on 1st September. Sadly the honeymoon only lasted three months! Driving home from the supermarket in Monday evening, in urban traffic, I lost power without warning. The yellow generic warning and yellow malfunction indicator lights came on and the revs were limited to 3000rpm. I limped home and rang Fiat right away.

This gave them the prompt to tell me about the brake servo recall notice. Nice of them to let me know...

So they gave me the number for Marylebone's servicing department (in Battersea) and I took it in on Tuesday morning. Reassuringly (and unsurprisingly in London), about 90% of cars they service are 500s. They did the recall job, and then fixed the loss of problem - a busted coil in one of the spark plugs, apparently (I am of a scientific background so not phased by talk of engines, but never ask me to fix one!). They also told me that the oil level was halfway between min and max, and would need topping up. Should the Twinair have used that much oil in its 3200-mile lifetime? I know oil needs checking reasonably regularly, but they advised me TOPPING UP every 1000 miles!! With the Selenia brand of course, and I'm sure many of you are already aware that stuff isn't cheap (I already knew thanks to an ex's Stilo Abarth :yum My Toyota Aygo went 50,000 without me touching an oil can I told them I'd buy it myself (for £9.60) instead of their £21-odd so took the car away, believing (as they had told me so) that it was fixed. It wasn't. I had barely got to the main crossroads by Battersea Park station and the problem returned - lights n all.

So turned it around and took it straight back. They popped it straight back into the workshop and poked around for a bit. Then came out and insisted I bought the oil for them to top it up and see if that helped :bang:

It didn't, so I was duly given an auto Twinair to take away. They suggested they'd need to order a part (possibly from Italy). So off I went, feeling a little bit patronised (the blonde hair never helps).

Anyway, I had a little gentle whinge on the Fiat UK Facebook page, which prompted a call later Tuesday afternoon from Pam Kaur "in the director's office". She assured me that she would personally look after the progress of the job and keep me updated.

Since I had heard nothing by 4pm this afternoon I called Battersea myself. The chap on the other end of the phone said that they were awaiting guidance from head office on how to proceed. Or something like that, he didn't explain himself entirely clearly. What could head office know that the mechanics don't? I'm now suspicious about what might be going on, especially in light of some of the other worrying mechanical issues that others here have reported.

The worst thing is that it is so new, with only average miles on the clock! I knew what I was taking on with Fiat (again, thanks to the Stilo Abarth), but didn't expect anything to go wrong quite so soon

I will take any sympathetic ears, but if there are more knowledgeable types out there with any thoughts I'll be very grateful. And yes, I do know where the dipstick is

My car was giving me so much joy; I don't want to entertain the thought of swapping it for something dull but reliable!!

Thank you.
Very clearly written, and clearly there is something the matter with the TA engine. I hope it is just a faulty batch of components, as happened with Audi and VW coils a few years ago.

Coils are a recal. Unluckily, your's failed before you'd had the notice / job done.

Ref oil use, mine hasn't used a drop in 6500 miles

Engines can use oil yes. You've just been unlucky though, they are generally reliable

Ulpian said:

Thank you.
Very clearly written, and clearly there is something the matter with the TA engine. I hope it is just a faulty batch of components, as happened with Audi and VW coils a few years ago.

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Thank you This is what I'm wondering, given the consultation with head office.
I'll endeavour to keep you all updated!

Squadrone Rosso said:

Coils are a recal. Unluckily, your's failed before you'd had the notice / job done.

Ref oil use, mine hasn't used a drop in 6500 miles

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Coils are a subject to a recall also? Separate to the brake servo recall?

I do feel they were having me on ref oil use. I told them that I did not believe it would have used that much in only 3 months, and that I suspected it was not fully topped up at delivery (I should have checked, but in the excitement of a new car there it was not something that crossed my mind!) I tried to insist that they should be topping it up for free, but to no avail

The coil pack is what they mean by the plug coil (I assume). That an ongoing recall. A friends MiTo TA failed in the same way as yours last week.

As for oil, driving styles & where driven can affect oil consumption. Ours does 70% open road driving, usually driven Con Brio It's not used a drop

It's sad to hear that someone's had this sort of problem on a 500, particularly so soon. However, if it helps to reassure you then i can say my Parents March 2012 500 TwinAir has been absolutely fine for the last 9 months/8000 miles. I've warned them it might get invited in for new coils, but it hasn't mis-behaved in this area yet. I will point out that i don't think this is a recall, it's more what Fiat would call a Service Campaign. A recall is for safety critical items, ie the door could fly open on the M6 or the engine could spontaneously burst into flames. A faulty coilpack isn't really in the same league.

Not heard about the Brake Servo problem, this could be classed as a recall as it has the potential to affect safety of the car. Just pointing it out as people on here will read this and expect Fiat to have notified all the thousands of TwinAir owners in one lump of the 'Recall' for coils when they're not safety critical anyway, hence why they appear to be being done in batches (my Parents car hasn't been seen yet for example).

Finally, our TwinAir hasn't used any oil either, so it could be as mentioned, down to driving style or you may be one of the few unlucky ones that has a slight oil leak on their TwinAir - this has been reported a couple of times on here. The dealer telling you to buy oil to top it up with there & then was poor. If they were that concerned it could've been causing the fault (which it wouldn't be as it was above the minimum level) then they could've shoved some oil in themselves, so i'd take that up with Fiat UK. It is good practice to look at the oil level at least once a month or every 1000 miles on a brand new car though, because they can use some oil, particularly when first running in.

Hope you get the car sorted anyway.

If your doing lots of short journeys that is not going to help the oil usage as the engine will never get up to working temperature.

New engines can use more oil than when they've fully bedded in. Generally an acceptable upper limit on oil consumption is around 1/2 a litre per 1000 miles, some engines will need more than others.

Often an engine's oil consumption can be determined by its running in method - the technique of putting and engine under high load (and mid to high speed to ensure the bearings aren't unduly loaded) for short periods of time, followed by equivalent periods of coasting to allow the piston rings to cool generally works very well.

Generally, how did you drive the car in those first 500-100 miles?

bgunn said:

New engines can use more oil than when they've fully bedded in. Generally an acceptable upper limit on oil consumption is around 1/2 a litre per 1000 miles, some engines will need more than others.

Often an engine's oil consumption can be determined by its running in method - the technique of putting and engine under high load (and mid to high speed to ensure the bearings aren't unduly loaded) for short periods of time, followed by equivalent periods of coasting to allow the piston rings to cool generally works very well.

Generally, how did you drive the car in those first 500-100 miles?

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It would have been a mix of city driving (rat runs around SW London to avoid the queues!) as well as a few suburban journeys (e.g. supermarket) and at least one longer motorway-type journey. I was given no advice when I collected the car about how best to run it in, depsite asking. They just said be gentle!

This is true of Toyota too - I bought a new Yaris from them and that didn't need any special treatment, and certainly no oil. My 3-stroke Aygo was also a perfectly behaved little car.

Anyway, thanks for all your advice! I have the promised update...

So they've fixed the car (they say) and I'll be collecting it on Saturday.

The work they did is thus:

On Tuesday, when I originally took the car in, they did the brake servo recall. To solve the bigger problem caused the loss off power: my specific vehicle was NOT under recall for the coils, however because it was misfiring in cylinder #1 they did change the coil in case it WAS that issue (since other Twinairs HAD been put under recall notice).

Of course that didn't fix the issue. Since then all they have done (apparently) is change both the spark plugs; it seems to have fixed the misfire so presumably it was the plugs that were causing the problem rather than the coil (why they didn't do this on Tuesday afternoon however I have no idea; I'll ask them on Saturday why they needed the extra day and the nod from Head Office!).

I'm debating whether I write a polite letter to Head Office for an explanation of the issues that have arisen. Dare I also mention the mpg issue... :yuck:

Laura

MissGilly said:

I'm debating whether I write a polite letter to Head Office for an explanation of the issues that have arisen. Dare I also mention the mpg issue... :yuck:

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I would write a letter. I have a 62 Punto TA and took the car in for 6 (very minor) issues such as windscreen wash missing the car etc. They washed, waxed and valeted my car, topped up the washer and fixed (some of) the problems all for no charge. I think most on here would agree that Fiats service very much depends on the dealership you have, mine are very good (so far).

Whilst having the issues looked at I asked about MPG as mine is doing 41 MPG at best (motorway driving). They said as its under 5000 miles other than a diagnostic test you just have to keep running it in. But mention it all the same, if they are trying to keep you happy they might throw you a freebie to keep you happy.

The joy of Fiats eh!?

MissGilly said:

My 3-stroke Aygo was also a perfectly behaved little car.

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Interesting considering it was either missing or had one too many strokes!

306maxi said:

Interesting considering it was either missing or had one too many strokes!

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Don't be mean maxi she probably meant 3 cylinders = )

By the way Miss Gilly, 0.5 liters of oil is just fine I use more than that with my 1.4 =). You seem quite smart to tell them no selenia for me at 21 pounds a liter, I know many women and even some boys who would have been fooled by that one! You do not need to refill with selenia anyways, as long as its 5w-40 ACEA C3 spec you are fine even if the engine blows up, its still covered under warranty. To avoid any hassle with the car's oil just check it every 2,000 miles or so and see if it needs some topping up, if the levels were really low the yellow oil warning light would come on anyway (I think that happens whenever you go below the min on the oil dipstick meaning you only have 2 liters out of 3 left in the car) so you should be fine.


Sorry to hear of your issues, but there is always such a risk with new engines, don't forget these engines have been around for less than 2 years so there are bound to be some issues with them. You are under warranty, so make sure if something is wrong to go straight to the dealer and ask them to sort it out! Battersea isn't that far away = )

ahmett said:

Don't be mean maxi she probably meant 3 cylinders = )

By the way Miss Gilly, 0.5 liters of oil is just fine I use more than that with my 1.4 =). You seem quite smart to tell them no selenia for me at 21 pounds a liter, I know many women and even some boys who would have been fooled by that one! You do not need to refill with selenia anyways, as long as its 5w-40 ACEA C3 spec you are fine even if the engine blows up, its still covered under warranty. To avoid any hassle with the car's oil just check it every 2,000 miles or so and see if it needs some topping up, if the levels were really low the yellow oil warning light would come on anyway (I think that happens whenever you go below the min on the oil dipstick meaning you only have 2 liters out of 3 left in the car) so you should be fine.


Sorry to hear of your issues, but there is always such a risk with new engines, don't forget these engines have been around for less than 2 years so there are bound to be some issues with them. You are under warranty, so make sure if something is wrong to go straight to the dealer and ask them to sort it out! Battersea isn't that far away = )

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Only problem is that if the oil pressure light comes on it may be too late.

I was only joking about the 3 stroke thing of course

306maxi said:

Only problem is that if the oil pressure light comes on it may be too late.

I was only joking about the 3 stroke thing of course

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Haha 3 stroke style!

No the yellow oil light isn't the end of the world provided you deal with it, my A2 was a serious oil user and i'd put 1 liter top up in everytime the yellow oil light came on which was like once a month!!! It's the red oil light that means you are in serious trouble = )

Haha yes I did mean 3-cyl not stroke - my bad I'm at work and mind is on the science of other things, not engines I also have a Vespa LX50 and with that I do check the oil every petrol top-up - it's two years old and hasn't used anything like as much as Fiat stuck into my Twinair on Tuesday so I do think they were trying to pull a fast one with me. I did point out to them that if the oil ws too low then the warning light should surely be telling me so! Anyhow, it was a minor point alongside the mechanical issues.

I shall see how my 500 drives on new plugs, and continue to keep an eye on the mpg. I've otherwise been really happy with it, the noise it makes gives it its character and I love how nippy it is out of ECO mode! To be good I usually keep it in ECO mode; some may not like how light the steering becomes, but in the narrow backstreets of London it's a definite bonus in my book

as I said in the other thread, the amount of oil used is within spec. I will admit that it's not typical, but it's within spec

306maxi said:

as I said in the other thread, the amount of oil used is within spec. I will admit that it's not typical, but it's within spec

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Within 'Fiat spec', I will take that. As experienced with the Stilo Abarth, I see that 'Fiat spec' can be a bit different in a range of areas

Yup. There should be something in the manual which says exactly what the oil useage can be. Like I said, your oil useage isn't typical, but then cars are funny things and are all different