I have 2008 Fiat 500 deisel, which has the particular filter. I was not warned of this when I purchased the car until one day, the little light came on. I immediately rang the garage, as it said to do so in the hand book. I was told to take it on a run on a dual carriage way to clear it! I did this and it did clear. A few weeks later this happened again, so I took it for a run and so it went on. This week I was driving back from town when suddenly clouds of white smoke was coming from the exhaust, the engine was revering like mad. I turned the key and took them out but still it was going but getting much worse! The street was filled with thick white smoke, the neighbours were coming out thinking a was a boy racer. At this point I thought the car was going to catch on fire!!!!! Then it just cut out....phew!

My husband and I towed it to our local garage (one we trust). The long and short of it, is, the engine has had it and it's all because of this filter (there is a lot more technical stuff but that is what it boiled down to).

We are now looking for a replacement engine and having the particular filter removed. It's going to cost aprox. £2000, it would have been better if it did catch on fire!!!!!

WARNING
If you have a deisel, make sure you have a long run every month, THIS IS NOT A CITY CAR AS IT WAS SOLD TO ME!!!! AND IT'S NOT JUST FIAT THAT HAVE THEM

Sorry to hear this.

Unfortunately this is the case with all diesel cars fitted with dpf.
They are no good being driven slowly all the time. They need a blast to keep the filter clear as you know.

No car salesman should ever recommend one to someone who only has urban use. Hopefully they have now caught on since you bought your car in 2008.

Another thing that could work for city use diesel cars is always driving in 2nd gear to keep the revs up, not really a solution though really is it?

As you say, it's not just fiat, so you can't blame them. It's the eu with their emission targets that have forced the use of these filters.

Maybe get it fixed and change to a petrol car?

Commiserations on the state of your engine

It's such a shame that small economical diesel cars are no longer suitable for town use due to the fitment of this technology (dpf).

I did 40k of mainly town stop/start driving in my old diesel Yaris (60k on it when I got it ex motoring school car) and never had a bit of bother.
I used to be a meter reader so was at times only going a few yards between streets, it was often run on 'chip shop fat' diesel (can't think of the right word for recycled cooking oils!) and the only thing that ever got changed was one front shocker and the battery. The engine seemed bulletproof and never missed a beat.

Personally I would take issue with the garage as IMO you have been sold a vehicle unsuitable for your purposes.

None of which really helps you at the moment, just wanted to make the point that small diesels are not the cars they used to be cos of dpf's

Once again sorry for your troubles.

lungi said:

...My husband and I towed it to our local garage (one we trust). The long and short of it, is, the engine has had it and it's all because of this filter (there is a lot more technical stuff but that is what it boiled down to).

We are now looking for a replacement engine and having the particular filter removed. It's going to cost aprox. £2000, it would have been better if it did catch on fire!!!!!
...

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Sorry to hear about your troubles with the multi-jet. Surprised that the engine is gone. What's the mileage on the engine ?
I wonder if the oil was getting diluted with diesel so that it was getting 'watered down' ?
Keep us posted on progress.
Hopefully you wouldn't have lost faith in the 500 and you might consider a petrol model to replace it with when it's fixed.
The very best of luck.

As mentioned previously this problem isn't unique to Fiats. It's also with Volvo and Mazda and many more.

Apparently the very latest Diesels have improved DPF arrangements, but Fiat is pushing the TA engine, and I'd go for that in any new small Fiat. A colleague has a Corsa (with the Fiat Diesel engine) and another has a dCi 1.5Clio, but they both drive fifteen plus miles to and from work and do c 250 miles a week at work. No problems for either of them, but they change their cars every three years anyway.

The trouble is even petrol cars are getting more and more technological, so I'd expect more mechanical problems in future from all engines.

Sorry about all your problems: very frightening.

I don't understand why anyone would consider a diesel engined city car!

Squadrone Rosso said:

I don't understand why anyone would consider a diesel engined city car!

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Agreed.

However this sounds like run away - caused by the failure of oil seals in the turbo, resulting in the engine running until destruction on engine oil, not diesel.

Did you manage to stall the engine before it 'ran away' or did you leave it to go bang?

Was it like this?

This does indeed sound like the engine running away as MEP described above very unusual and unlucky but very unlikely to have been anything whatsoever to do with the filter

Regeneration, introduces another problem to the equation. Although it clears the soot that has accumulated in the DPF, the method used, adding extra fuel to the engine on the exhaust stroke to increase exhaust gas temperature also gradually increases the sump level with unburnt fuel.

In some isolated cases this can cause the engine to carry on running after the ignition is switched off as it can suck oil into the engine and carry on running.

However, the algorithm used in the engine software should have shown a warning message on the dash to say that the oil needed changing after a certain number of regenerations.

I assume that this car was secondhand when you purchased it so was it from a Fiat dealer and do you have any service history available?

Check this [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway"]link[/ame] to see if it describes your situation.

If the engine experienced the "run-away" scenario, then it was most likely down to the oil level being too high (where was it on the dipstick the last time you checked it?) or a turbo seal failure (as has been said).

Either it was too high to begin with, and the two or more regens diluted the oil with enough fuel to tip it over the edge, or the garage may have been sneaky and reset the oil degradation counter without actually changing the oil, causing it to thin-out too much and cause premature engine/turbo wear before eventually failing. A check of the parameters may help to determine this.

TBH, Fiat's DPF system is very good compared to others, but can be let down by the occasional sensor fault or the lack of info given to owners by the Salesmen (for fear of scaring them away). I've disclosed Technical info in the past to help Forum members and dispel a few myths- one being that it needs to be thrashed on the motorway once a week/month (it'll happily do a regen at idle- as long as you recognise it's doing it and don't switch-off before it's done ), for example.

I had one which kept regenerating on a far-too-regular basis before. A few minutes reading the ECU parameters identified the Exhaust Gas Temperature sensor was reading no higher than 40 degreesC, even during a regen where it should be practically glowing! This meant the ECU believed the filter wasn't getting hot enough to clear, so it repeated the procedure over and over, not recognising the sensor readings being incorrect. By the time it came to us, the damage had been done- it had spun a shell on number 1 con-rod due to the thinned oil. Replacement engine fitted, and a new sensor fitted and working correctly- and all was perfect and we never saw the car again for apart from usual servicing.

What I'm getting at is that you need to find out the cause of the failure before you fit the new engine in case the DPF regen issue was a symptom, not a cause.

lungi said:

The long and short of it, is, the engine has had it...
...It's going to cost aprox. £2000

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Condolences. I feel very sorry for you - this isn't what you expected when you signed up for this car.

I've said it before on this forum but anyone in the UK buying a diesel 500 in the belief that they will have lower overall running costs than the 1.2 petrol is likely to be disappointed.

I'm actually surprised you can get a replacement fitted for £2000 - will this be a pukka factory reconditioned engine, or a secondhand unit?

Whatever happens, thanks for sharing your story as a warning to others, and the very best of luck in getting it fixed.

Very common with vehicles fitted with DPF. Diesel dilutes the oil in the sump until it eventually gets to such a high level it can be drawn in via the breather system and 'run on' . This is where no external sources of fuel are needed and it will keep running on its own oil ussually until it stops. Usually resulting in mass damage/engine failure. Bringing the car to a halt and stalling it in top gear are usually the favourites to stopping this. However if its an auto not really alot can be done once its started running on.

My biggest gripe with the regen process is the lack of warning via the dashboard that it is happening. It I am more awake than usual, and the brain cell is just about functioning, then I will either notice a much faster tickover than usual or my mpg plummeting.

It would be far more useful to have a regen light on the dashboard so that one could allow the process to finish fully by either letting the engine tick over till done or going for a high revving journey.

If there is such a light on the dash, please break it to me gently.......

Squadrone Rosso said:

I don't understand why anyone would consider a diesel engined city car!

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90p per litre chip shop diesel!

snes said:

My biggest gripe with the regen process is the lack of warning via the dashboard that it is happening. It I am more awake than usual, and the brain cell is just about functioning, then I will either notice a much faster tickover than usual or my mpg plummeting.

It would be far more useful to have a regen light on the dashboard so that one could allow the process to finish fully by either letting the engine tick over till done or going for a high revving journey.

If there is such a light on the dash, please break it to me gently.......

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You've no need to know its doing it though. Revving the engine isn't going to help it. Key hints of it being done (on a 1.6 Bravo anyway) is the cooling fan blasting away when not needed (ie when youve just come off a dual carriageway) and it instant MPG figure being very sluggish to return to 99.9 mpg on period of fuel shut off. When not regenerating it'll return to 99.9 mpg almost instantly when your foot is taken off of the accelerator.

went to buy a new wheel bearing today after seeing this thread and saw this stuff being pushed as an all new answer to DPF regeneration in the motor factors, seems to be a fuel additive which changes the chemistry of the diesel particle that get trapped by the filter making a regen more effective

http://www.wynns.uk.com/Product.aspx?p=28392&g=GRP_PRO_DIESEL

Panda, explain 2 things to me.

If I do know a regen has started, what should I do?

And if a regen has started, without me knowing, and I turn the engine off, what will happen?

Many thanks!

Saw this on a XF which was only a few months old. When the oil is at maximum, it can be diluted by the extra diesel being introduced. When the oil level gets too high it feeds the engine. This one was destroyed and needed a new engine and gearbox as it auto and in park at the time.

There may have been a issue with too much diesel being injected. It would worth getting a report done and approaching Fiat for a goodwill gesture.

snes said:

explain 2 things to me.

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Q. If I do know a regen has started, what should I do?

A. Carry on driving until it has completed. If for any reason you are unable to do this the regeneration will continue if you leave the engine idling whilst stationary as pointed out by D4nny8oy.

Q. And if a regen has started, without me knowing, and I turn the engine off, what will happen?

A. The next time you drive the car and the conditions for regen have been met eg. temperature then the regen will continue. I believe that you can do this up to 3 times but if it fails to complete by then you will get a warning message/light in the speedo and you will need to take it to a dealer for them to carry out a forced regeneration. If that doesn't work then a new DPF will be required.

grimwau said:

Q. And if a regen has started, without me knowing, and I turn the engine off, what will happen?

A. The next time you drive the car and the conditions for regen have been met eg. temperature then the regen will continue. I believe that you can do this up to 3 times but if it fails to complete by then you will get a warning message/light in the speedo and you will need to take it to a dealer for them to carry out a forced regeneration. If that doesn't work then a new DPF will be required.

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As above.

If it's got to the stage where it urgently needs a normal regen, it'll put the DPF warning lamp on. If you allow it to finish (10-15 mins max), the warning lamp will self-extinguish.

If, for whatever reason, it's unable to complete a cycle and successive attempts fail to finish and cure the blockage, the ECU will illuminate the EML along with the DPF lamp and a forced regen will be required.

Oil level should never be an issue as Fiat recommended to Dealers a refill should remain a few mm below MAX on DPF models to pre-empt the rise between services.

Citroen/Peugoet use the FAP (additive-based) DPF system where you have a seperate tank of (very environmentally unsafe) fluid which is pumped into the main fuel tank when a regen is needed. It was fitted to the Ulysses and was a constant nightmare with pump/level sender/diesel cap sensor issues. If I had a choice, I'd pick a Fiat DPF version over a FAP DPF, hands down.