Technical Front Brake Pad & Disc Lifespan

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Technical Front Brake Pad & Disc Lifespan

SammySeal

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Hi there,
Looking for some advice please.
Earlier this week, my Fiat 500 went in for it's 2nd year service, with mileage at 19,500.
Got a phone call later that day saying the front brake pads and discs needed replacing.:eek:
Even though there wasn't any sensor warning, or grinding sounds from the brakes, I said go ahead. Since then I've been reading a number of forums, and think I may have been conned. :confused:
It is normal for front brake pads and discs to be replaced at less than 20k miles?
My driving style is not 'aggressive', and is mainly on the motorway (50 mile round trip).
The servicing centre is a nationwide fiat 500 dealer - so I had the confidence that they are honest!
Appreciate any input. (y)Thank you in advance,

Samantha
 
Should be lasting a lot longer than that. You should tell them to show you the old items. Then again they could show you anything or say that they've been thrown out.
 
Hi there,
Looking for some advice please.
Earlier this week, my Fiat 500 went in for it's 2nd year service, with mileage at 19,500.
Got a phone call later that day saying the front brake pads and discs needed replacing.:eek:
Even though there wasn't any sensor warning, or grinding sounds from the brakes, I said go ahead. Since then I've been reading a number of forums, and think I may have been conned. :confused:
It is normal for front brake pads and discs to be replaced at less than 20k miles?
My driving style is not 'aggressive', and is mainly on the motorway (50 mile round trip).
The servicing centre is a nationwide fiat 500 dealer - so I had the confidence that they are honest!
Appreciate any input. (y)Thank you in advance,

Samantha

Hi and welcome to the forum :wave:

The 500 is well known for premature disc brake wear. Read this for a (somewhat technical) explanation of why:

https://www.fiatforum.com/500/281466-500-disc-brakes-problems-solutions.html?p=2854187

Were you conned? Well, a garage has to make a judgment at service time about whether the pads & discs will last until the next scheduled service inspection. In your case, that won't be for another 18,000 miles, so if the pads &/or disks are much more than half worn now, they probably won't go the distance & the garage will likely recommend replacement, even though they may still be good for another 10-15000 miles.

Once the pads wear to the service limit, the wear warning light should illuminate, provided the wiring is undamaged and (crucially) the pads are wearing evenly - there's only a warning indicator on one of the four pads. So it's quite possible for one of the pads to wear down to the metal, even if the light hasn't come on. In that case, the worst that will happen is that you'll hear a nasty grinding noise when you brake & you'll likely need to replace the discs as well - but the car will still stop perfectly safely. On a modern car, it's quite common to have to replace the discs at pad change time anyway, so what have you really lost by waiting? Certainly the convenience of not having to book the car in for an unscheduled repair - which for some folks, may be worth paying for.

Is it reasonable for a main dealer to recommend replacement of currently-functioning brakes on the basis that they won't make it to the next scheduled service? I've got my own view, but I'll let the rest of the forum be the judge of that :).
 
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I did 23k ish before changing my pads and they were completely gone. Mind you i probably use them at higher speed than you do on the 1.4 so probably the wear rate was higher. But as jrkirching said the definately wouldnt have lasted until 36 k service. If i cant see your pads i cant see how worn they are but its not unheard of to change pads then, especially if you use the brakes a lot like many drivers seem to do (instead of using gears to slow the car down).

Whats more important is how much the dealer charges you to change the pads!!
 
Is it reasonable for a main dealer to recommend replacement of currently-functioning brakes on the basis that they won't make it to the next scheduled service? I've got my own view, but I'll let the rest of the forum be the judge of that :).

Welcome to the Forum SammySeal.

How much did they charge?

This was my first thought when I read your opening post.:eek:

Should be lasting a lot longer than that. You should tell them to show you the old items. Then again they could show you anything or say that they've been thrown out.
:yeahthat:
I thought this as well.:eek:

Reminds me of a recent thread (Click here)

Job is done now and if there's no squealing it 'sounds' like it was done properly. As a consolation you're shouldn't have any bother for the next 20K miles except this time only a set of pads will be needed.:)

To give the the Garage the benefit of the doubt maybe the pads had worn unevenly and scored one of the discs - then a set would be needed. At least on a 1.2 / TA they're relatively cheap.

On my own car at just under 21K miles - my pads are well worn and there's a very pronounced lip on the disc. I will just be doing the pads.
 
Hi and welcome to the forum :wave:

The 500 is well known for premature disc brake wear. Read this for a (somewhat technical) explanation of why:

Were you conned? Well, a garage has to make a judgment at service time about whether the pads & discs will last until the next scheduled service inspection. In your case, that won't be for another 18,000 miles, so if the pads &/or disks are much more than half worn now, they probably won't go the distance & the garage will likely recommend replacement, even though they may still be good for another 10-15000 miles.

Once the pads wear to the service limit, the wear warning light should illuminate, provided the wiring is undamaged and (crucially) the pads are wearing evenly - there's only a warning indicator on one of the four pads. So it's quite possible for one of the pads to wear down to the metal, even if the light hasn't come on. In that case, the worst that will happen is that you'll hear a nasty grinding noise when you brake & you'll likely need to replace the discs as well - but the car will still stop perfectly safely. On a modern car, it's quite common to have to replace the discs at pad change time anyway, so what have you really lost by waiting? Certainly the convenience of not having to book the car in for an unscheduled repair - which for some folks, may be worth paying for.

Is it reasonable for a main dealer to recommend replacement of currently-functioning brakes on the basis that they won't make it to the next scheduled service? I've got my own view, but I'll let the rest of the forum be the judge of that :).

The warning for worn brakes should come up when there's 4-5 mm left on the pads?

I work as a car mechanic in a Saab, and other brands, workshop and eg. on a manual Saab 9-3 2003- ,there's about 1 mm of wear per 10000 km, about 6200 mi, on the front brakes.

Rear pads wear faster on these!!

We recommend change at 4-5 mm just to be sure that it won't wear out completely before the next scheduled service but I often tell the customer that they have to be changed in the next 20000 km / 12500 mi, to be sure, if they don't have time or money at the time.

If you know you'll have to change them before next scheduled service I don't understand why not to wait a while?

Waste of money to change too soon IMO!

I also work on Fiat. Mainly Fiorino 1,3 MJT with the Selespeed / MTA gearbox.

Brake-pads normally wears to 2 mm left in about 9000 miles. Discs wears to below min. thickness about every other pad change.

On a modern car, it's quite common to have to replace the discs at pad change time anyway,
I would like for you to tell me which modern cars, normally driven, this applies to!

Maybe a change of discs the second or third time you change pads?

In the rear, not because of wear but because of rust.

Regards

Roland
 
We have just said good bye to our 1.2 and it had done over 20,000 and still had quite a bit of wear left on the front tyres never mind the brake pads.

My 1.4 Civic Type S, has just done 37,000 miles and has just had front and back pads. The fronts could have lasted a little longer but one of the rears was pretty much down to the backing plate. There was certainly no need for discs.

In the late 90's I had a 306 Diesel company car and the dealer fitted new pads and discs every 20,000 miles - I was surprised the lease company didn't dig a bit deeper into it as I'm not convinced there was a genuine need.
 
It depends entirely on the driving style and conditions. On a motorway you might drive 200 miles without touching the brake pedal, but then around towns you are always on the brakes. Any dealer who says the pads must be changed after a certain mileage is a moron.

Replacing the discs and pads is an easy job to do yourself, even if you have never tried. I replaced the front discs and pads on my old 1.2 punto for less than £40 from halfords parts and they performed the same afterwards.
 
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I would like for you to tell me which modern cars, normally driven, this applies to!

From my own experience, small low-powered cars with single front discs. As you say, I'd expect a heavier, more powerful vehicle with beefier, ventilated discs to go through pads faster & need the discs changing every 2-3 pad swaps.

It depends entirely on the driving style and conditions... Any dealer who says the pads must be changed after a certain mileage is a moron.

Spot on with that advice. Drive it hard on the track & the pads might not make it through the day; conversely my old Ka only needed one pad & disc change in over 100000 miles.

On a car like the 1.2, where the discs are about £10 each, my own preference is to change the pads when worn to the limit & to change the discs as well if I don't think they'll last the life of the new pads.

On a gently driven car, contamination & corrosion might wear them faster than actual braking (the 500 pads seem particularly prone to sticking in the frames), which is why I like to take the front brakes apart, clean & re-lubricate at least after every second winter.

What's the going rate for a disc & pad swap on the 1.2? Decent OEM parts are about the price of a tank of fuel, so I'm guessing around £120 all-in would be a fair price for an indie?
 
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just on the subject, I can hear my pads draagging on the discs again now....

Don't worry, they can be safely run in this condition for many miles, providing you fit a suitable heat-resistant shield to the arch liner to prevent any sparks from melting the plastic :D. The official FIAT one is rather pricey, so it may be worth searching the 'net for an aftermarket equivalent.
 
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Hi there,
Looking for some advice please.
Earlier this week, my Fiat 500 went in for it's 2nd year service, with mileage at 19,500.
Got a phone call later that day saying the front brake pads and discs needed replacing.:eek:
Even though there wasn't any sensor warning, or grinding sounds from the brakes, I said go ahead. Since then I've been reading a number of forums, and think I may have been conned. :confused:
It is normal for front brake pads and discs to be replaced at less than 20k miles?
My driving style is not 'aggressive', and is mainly on the motorway (50 mile round trip).
The servicing centre is a nationwide fiat 500 dealer - so I had the confidence that they are honest!
Appreciate any input. (y)Thank you in advance,

Samantha

I had a MiTo previously and got 28,000 miles from the front pads. When I sold it at 35k miles the rear pads were only 20% worn! Both front and rear brakes had ventilated discs.

Judging that the MiTo is probably a more powerful car with higher braking dependancy, it seems you may have been conned... just a lesson for next time to ask for proof before going ahead I guess.

Was this at a main dealer?
 
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From my own experience, small low-powered cars with single front discs.

That's a good point about the single disc wouldn't last as long as a ventilated setup (as on the 1.4 500).

What's the going rate for a disc & pad swap on the 1.2? Decent OEM parts are about the price of a tank of fuel, so I'm guessing around £120 all-in would be a fair price for an indie?

Checking back on a previous post if you add up a set of aftermarket Brembo discs at £21 and pads at £18.60 it should be possible to get it under that with an independant.
As previously mentioned by your goodself cleaning the calipers out properly to avoid squeeling with the new set - a trusted independant or a resonably priced Fiat dealer is what's needed. Also some Fiat garages are allowing customers to supply their own parts that are not OEM.
In Ireland VAT differences of 13.5% applied to Parts & Labour can give an advantage over 'parts only' at 23%. It can make a difference on more expensive items.

EDIT - JR - noticed that you're getting your OEM discs for £10 each on the 1.2 - who are you going to ?

Replacing the discs and pads is an easy job to do yourself, even if you have never tried. I replaced the front discs and pads on my old 1.2 punto ...
:yeahthat:
It's probably the one job that could be tackled at a competent DIY.
 
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Thank you to everybody who has responded (and apologies for the delayed reply).
To answer some of the questions :-
1. I was charged £144 (pads 1 set @£25, discs 2 @ £20 each & labour £55)
2. It was done at the Fiat Dealer where I originally bought the 500
Thanks again, and appreciate the input.(y)
Samantha
 
Thank you to everybody who has responded (and apologies for the delayed reply).
To answer some of the questions :-
1. I was charged £144 (pads 1 set @£25, discs 2 @ £20 each & labour £55)
2. It was done at the Fiat Dealer where I originally bought the 500
Thanks again, and appreciate the input.(y)
Samantha

Irrespective of whether they did or didn't need replacing right now, for a main dealer, I'd say that's a good price (y). And you won't have to worry about your brakes for at least another couple of years :).
 
Anyone though about the halfords auto centre buy once, get lifetime replacements free deal?

Don't know if there are any conditions. Probably something like free parts, double labour. :D

Just read it. Only pads and shoes included, not discs.
 
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