Hi,

My 1.2 Pop was last serviced at 13000 miles (and at 3000 miles before that) I am now at 25000 miles and so am not due a service for another 5000 miles or so. However I have realised that the spark plugs should be changed every 18000 miles. I dont believe that they were done on the 13000 mile service so am planning on just buying the spark plugs and getting a friend to fit them for me. Can anyone tell me what spark plugs I need to buy and how hard they are to change on the 500? Also, do you think it necessary for me to change them right now or should I just wait out for the next service? Thanks for your time,

Jess x

I'd leave them until the next service Jess. Modern spark plugs on modern engines are easily capable of 40,000+ miles

Jessica500 said:

Hi,

My 1.2 Pop was last serviced at 13000 miles (and at 3000 miles before that) I am now at 25000 miles and so am not due a service for another 5000 miles or so. However I have realised that the spark plugs should be changed every 18000 miles. I dont believe that they were done on the 13000 mile service so am planning on just buying the spark plugs and getting a friend to fit them for me. Can anyone tell me what spark plugs I need to buy and how hard they are to change on the 500? Also, do you think it necessary for me to change them right now or should I just wait out for the next service? Thanks for your time,

Jess x

Click to expand...

NGK spark (Click here)
Easy to change on the 1.2 compared with the 1.4.
Suggest that you change them although it's not urgent.
I bought my on ebay cheap.
Could get them off shop4parts.

EDIT: just noticed MEP's response. That's the beauty of forums.

loveshandbags said:

NGK spark (Click here)
Easy to change on the 1.2 compared with the 1.4.
Suggest that you change them although it's not urgent.
I bought my on ebay cheap.
Could get them off shop4parts.

Click to expand...

Easier to access on the 1.4 IMO each to their own though.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Easier to access on the 1.4 IMO each to their own though.

Click to expand...

Haven't done a 1.2 but on the 1.4 I had to buy a special extension. I bought iriduim ones - initially NGK and then Denso but on a 1.2 sticking to the standard OEM NGK is recommended. A set of standard NGK plugs should cost around £10-£12 and about 30 minutes work so it shouldn't break the bank. Surprised that the standard plugs would continue performing up to 40K. NGK Iridium IIRC guarantee around 50K as a long life plug & Denso iridium give less (around 33K ?)

Whilst they can do 40k, I think most people wouldn't struggle to identify a set that has done 40k vs a set that hasn't. For the cost of them, and the fuel you save, it's well worth changing them now..

Most Easterly Pandas said:

I'd leave them until the next service Jess. Modern spark plugs on modern engines are easily capable of 40,000+ miles

Click to expand...

Modern spark plugs with platinum or iridium electrodes are indeed capable of such mileages.

Unfortunately those sort of plugs aren't fitted as standard to the 1.2 500.

Worn plugs waste fuel, may make the car harder to start and in the worst case will cause the engine to misfire, which will quickly lead to expensive-to-fix damage, not least to the catalytic converter. I've always said that manufacturers service intervals should be interpreted with a large measure of common sense, but IMO 18k is already pushing the limits of peak efficiency for conventional technology plugs.

Interestingly the NGK website lists the exact same plugs for the 1.2 Euro4 Panda & FIAT's recommended change interval for that car is only 12k*. IIRC the 1.2 Euro5 engine in the 500 runs at a higher compression ratio, so the plugs are actually operating under greater stress than those in the Panda, yet are supposedly good for a 50% greater service life . You can see why I sometimes think FIAT's service schedules have been drafted by the marketing department rather than by engineering.

*IMPORTANT UPDATE: I've just looked in the handbook for the Panda & the specifications are different to the NGK website :bang::bang::bang:. Doesn't really change the argument, though.

There's another good reason to change them sooner rather than later - the longer they're left in, the more likely it is that they will seize in the cylinder head - and that can be a very expensive repair. Easily prevented by smearing a dab of copper grease on the threads when fitting - but that's not done in the factory & as yours have never been changed since the car was built, I'd recommend doing them now & not waiting until the next service is due - especially as you've an offer of cheap or even free labour .

jrkitching said:

Modern spark plugs with platinum or iridium electrodes are indeed capable of such mileages.

Unfortunately those sort of plugs aren't fitted as standard to the 1.2 500.

Worn plugs waste fuel, may make the car harder to start and in the worst case will cause the engine to misfire, which will quickly lead to expensive-to-fix damage, not least to the catalytic converter. I've always said that manufacturers service intervals should be interpreted with a large measure of common sense, but IMO 18k is already pushing the limits of peak efficiency for conventional technology plugs.

Interestingly the NGK website lists the exact same plugs for my 1.2 Euro4 Panda & FIAT's recommended change interval for that car is only 12k.

There's another good reason to change them sooner rather than later - the longer they're left in, the more likely it is that they will seize in the cylinder head - and that can be a very expensive repair. Easily prevented by smearing a dab of copper grease on the threads when fitting - but that's not done in the factory & as yours have never been changed since the car was built, I'd recommend doing them now & not waiting until the next service is due - especially as you've an offer of cheap or even free labour .

Click to expand...

I agree, they are really cheap and if your friend is doing it for you perfect. Buy the plugs, buy him a pint after he is finished and there we go!

Check the grande punto guides section the spark plug change is very similar (same engine)

jrkitching said:

*IMPORTANT UPDATE: I've just looked in the handbook for the Panda & the specifications are different to the NGK website :bang::bang::bang:. Doesn't really change the argument, though.

Click to expand...

Which spark plug is specified in the handbook for the 500 1.2 ?
http://spark-plugs.co.uk/index.php/products/details/ZKR7A-10
Is it different to the one on the above link ?

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/car-part-longevity/automotive-spark-plugs-last.htm
So how long do they typically last? Well, standard copper plugs are said to last anywhere from 10,000 to 20,000 miles, while more expensive iridium or platinum spark plugs can last 60,000 miles or more.

A few links below that might be of benefit for others contemplating iridiums. Note that technically these are in breech of Fiat warranty - the standard OEM NGK plug should be used. There was 'talk' of the US using the iridium as the 'standard' plug on the multi-air but it seems they too are using the 'standard' plug.

http://spark-plugs.co.uk/index.php/contents/display/23/technical.contents.iridium
Service life for normally aspirated engines can be up to 30,000 miles but we would expect plugs to be past their best by this time, 20,000 miles is a more practical target and replacing after a shorter interval may provide greater savings in fuel economy.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/spark_plugs/iridiumix.asp

http://www.densoiridium.com/faq.php
Q.How long will Iridium Last? DENSO advises replacement after 30,000 miles.

http://www.ngk.com/faqmain.asp
How long will my iridium spark plugs last?
The manufacturers of Irdium plugs are saying 40,000 to 60,000 miles. But they have to temper their projections as driving conditions and motor modifications differ. Typically we have found you can expect 60,000 to 80,000 miles on an unaltered motor.

http://spark-plugs.co.uk/index.php/contents/display/19/technical.contents.FAQ
Q6. How long should my spark plugs last?
That is dependant on the application and condition of the engine. High revving engines, driven hard, (eg motorcycles) will wear plugs much more quickly than a large engined car which is used for cruising. Standard copper plugs usually have an estimated service life of 10,000 to 20,000 miles depending upon design and application, Denso recommend changing their Iridium Power plugs before the maximum 30,000 miles, NGK's Iridium IX may last up to 60,000 miles in a standard use car engine.Double platinum types may last 60,000 miles or more and some NGK and Denso OEM Iridium types may last up to 120,000 miles. The plugs optimum performance level is passed a long time before these intervals so we would recommend changing plugs regularly as a matter of course, thus saving fuel costs.

loveshandbags said:

Which spark plug is specified in the handbook for the 500 1.2 ?
http://spark-plugs.co.uk/index.php/products/details/ZKR7A-10
Is it different to the one on the above link ?

Click to expand...

This is getting interesting - you have opened up a can of worms.

I've extracted the relevant pages from both Panda & 500 handbooks - these are identical to the physical documents that were supplied with the cars I bought new in 2010.

Compare the recommendations in the handbooks with the recommendations on the NGK website:

DCPR7E-N-10
http://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/buyers_guide_search.php?type=SPARK%20PLUGS&part=DCPR7E-N-10

ZKR7A-10
http://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/buyers_guide_search.php?type=SPARK PLUGS&part=ZKR7A-10

and you'll see the discrepancy.

What's going on here? NGK are FIAT's plug supply partner, so you'd expect the two to match up better than this.

You can can check your engine type by looking at the VIN plate, which is riveted to the left side of the boot floor, under the carpet. My 500 has the 169A4000 engine - the 500 handbook specifies DCPR7E-N-10 for this engine, but the Panda handbook specifies ZKR7A-10 when fitted with the 169A4000.

My Panda has the 188A4000 engine - the handbook specifies DCPR7E-N-10. The NGK website also recommends DCPR7E-N-10 for the 188A4000, but then confuses you by suggesting ZKR7A-10 for the Euro4 Panda, incorrectly showing that car as being fitted with the 199A4000 (This may be a misprint for the 169A4000 which is shown in the Panda handbook as being fitted to the current production Eu5 Pandas). Anyone using the NGK website without cross-referencing their specific engine type will be misled by the information there - my Panda has the 188A4000 & according to the registration information is Euro4 compliant.

http://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/car_...t=FIAT&model=PANDA%20%2804--%3E%29&engine=1.2

I'm thinking the recommendations in the owners handbook I got with my 500 are probably wrong. Confusing to anyone relying on RTFM in this case :bang:.

Anyone here know what the difference is between the two plugs?

**UPDATE** Think I might have answered my own question:

http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/pages/technical/NGK-spark-plug-code.htm

jrkitching said:

Anyone here know what the difference is between the two plugs?

Click to expand...

http://spark-plugs.co.uk/index.php/products/details/DCPR7E-N-10
http://spark-plugs.co.uk/index.php/products/details/ZKR7A-10

There's a physical difference...

loveshandbags said:

http://spark-plugs.co.uk/index.php/products/details/DCPR7E-N-10
http://spark-plugs.co.uk/index.php/products/details/ZKR7A-10

There's a physical difference...

Click to expand...

Look closely and you'll see there's some dubious information in these links. For example:

http://spark-plugs.co.uk/index.php/products/details/DCPR7E-N-10

claims to have a 14mm thread, but decoding the NGK part number using this link:

http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/pages/technical/NGK-spark-plug-code.htm

would indicate a 12mm thread.

I'm guessing they're actually both 12mm, otherwise the reference in my 500 handbook makes no sense. Also the picture of the DCPR7E-N-10 shows a different plug entirely, with the annotation "Image for illustration only".

AFAICT, the significant difference is that the ZKR7A-10 uses a projected tip.

However, servicing my own cars gives me a big advantage - I know for certain that the plugs in them now are the plugs they left the factory with. So before ordering anything, I'll whip one of them out & see what's actually been fitted .

Moving on, how did you get on with the Iridium plugs? The Panda (should!) have the same DCPR7E-N-10 plugs as your old 1.4 500 & it's therefore an option to consider. Economically it makes sense - the plugs are almost twice the price, but should last at least three times as long.

jrkitching said:

Look closely and you'll see there's some dubious information in these links. For example:

http://spark-plugs.co.uk/index.php/products/details/DCPR7E-N-10

claims to have a 14mm thread, but decoding the NGK part number using this link:

http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/pages/technical/NGK-spark-plug-code.htm

would indicate a 12mm thread.

I'm guessing they're actually both 12mm, otherwise the reference in my 500 handbook makes no sense. Also the picture of the DCPR7E-N-10 shows a different plug entirely, with the annotation "Image for illustration only".

AFAICT, the significant difference is that the ZKR7A-10 uses a projected tip.

However, servicing my own cars gives me a big advantage - I know for certain that the plugs in them now are the plugs they left the factory with. So before ordering anything, I'll whip one of them out & see what's actually been fitted .

Moving on, how did you get on with the Iridium plugs? The Panda (should!) have the same DCPR7E-N-10 plugs as your old 1.4 500 & it's therefore an option to consider. Economically it makes sense - the plugs are almost twice the price, but should last at least three times as long.

Click to expand...

In relation to the physical differences on the ZKR7A-10 (for 500 1.2) and the NGK DCPR7E-N-10 (for 1.4s and Panda 1.1, 1.2, 1.4 with possibly the exception of the Euro 5 1.2) are the SAME PHYSICAL size judging by the ‘Denso discovery’. So my apologies on that link. You really have to double check everything !

When I bought the NGK Iridium set for the ‘old’ 1.4 I got them ‘cheap’ for around £25 but I paid nearer the £40 mark for the Denso Iridium (IXU22).

Shop4parts no longer seem to stock plugs for a Fiat 500…
Even tried ‘plugging’ in the Fiat part # 0055190788 directly on the web site and got nothing.

Had a ‘performance plug’ called Splitfire on a MX5 in the 90s & it was a disaster with the car misfiring and running rough. Changed the plugs and leads to NGK sorting the performance issues out. This set a ‘marker’ for others.

ZKR7A-10 All Fiat 500s 1242cc (1.2 Petrol)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NGK-SPARK-PLUG-1691-ZKR7A-10-/220940316554?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AFiat%7CModel%3A500&hash=item337111af8a

There are no NGK Iridium’s listed for the 1.2.

This is Andy’s guide (Click here) for those who can’t find it on the FF.

___________________________________________


In a snapshot I found no difference with the NGK Iridium compared with the standard NGK but did notice a little difference with the Denso Iridium. Would expect that both would last longer than the standard plug. Strong preference for the Denso. Smaller Centre electrode of 0.4mm compared with the 0.6mm on the NGK explains the shorter life expectancy.

I haven’t tried the Denso ‘tough’ ones. Doubt that they would make any difference on a non modified car and it would be highly unlikely on a 1.2.

There are NO NGK Iridium plugs listed for the 500 1.2 petrol but a Denso Iridium can be got but it is the SAME ONE as listed for the 1.4 !!!

There are 2 variants – the IXU22 and the tough one VXU22.

Densos – my experience…
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/268372-spark-plugs-100hp.html?p=2750046
Another persons experience…
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/237737-panda-100hp-alternative-spark-plugs.html

On the T-jet the ‘standard’ plug is an Iridium based one. One plug costs the same as a standard set ! On a 1.2 I reckon you are better off sticking with the standard plug. On the 1.4 it would be debatable. Denso Iridium available on the T-jet but it would be a warranty breech.

There does not appear to be any NGK Iridium listed for a 500 1.2 but some Motor shops & ebayers are selling the Denso Iridium ones specified for the 1.4 for the 1.2. Contacted Larkspeed and they said that it was correct. Personally I would be dubious about it. The denso web site does not list Fiat.
http://www.densoiridium.com/

Email could be sent here to confirm if they are suitable…
http://denso-europe.com/?page_id=971

Fiat 500 1.2 Denso Iridium Plug IXU22 advertised on ebay for the 1.2
VXU22 – advertised for the 500 1.2 (also works on the 1.4) they have the IXU22 at £11.45

Ebay link advertising the same.

NGK DCPR7E-N-10 standard spark plugs for 500 1.4& the Panda 1.1, 1.2, 1.4 (Click here)

NGK Iridium explanation

Ebay link - Upgrade Spark Plugs NGK Iridium IX DCPR7EIX x4 -FIAT 500 1.4 08>on

ONLY T-JET SPECIFIC…
Denso Iridium Plugs for Abarth 500 / T-jet IXU27
Ebay 500 Abarth plugs – this states to check NGK Partfinder site to check for you plug type.
Plug used on the T-jet which is on the A500, GP T-jet, Mito TB (Turbo models). If you click on the picture on shop4parts you can see the actual plug.

loveshandbags said:

There does not appear to be any NGK Iridium listed for a 500 1.2...

Click to expand...

NGK Iridium do one that will suit but it is NOT officially recommended (there is a disclaimer).

http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/pages/technical/NGK-spark-plug-code.htm
Re-looked at the above site posted by JR and the differences as already pointed out are ‘Extra Projected tip’. Spoke with a technical representative from the above site and they confirmed that the recommended plug for the 500 was as already pointed out is the ZKR7A-10. They stated that the Denso recommendation of IXU22& VXU22 will work fine in the 1.2 but the gap is WRONG for both the 1.2 and 1.4 since it should be 1.0 and not at the pre-set of 0.8. They qualified themselves stating it is not recommended to change given the delicate nature of the tip but the gap can be done (Click here). Correct gap will give optimum performance. 'Sparkplugs.co.uk' stated that the Densos were better performing but did not last as long as the NGK Iridiums (30K verus possibly 60K but can vary dependant on use).

It was suggested that I contact NGK to get their ‘take’ on the actual differences and if they had an iridium recommendation....NGK said the tip on the ZKR7A-10 has a 5mm projected tip compared with the 3mm projected tip along with a ‘special design’ compared with the DCPR7E-N-10.The DCPR7E is the same plug as the DCPR7E-N-10 except with a different gap i.e. 1.0mm as opposed to 0.8mm. NGK initially said that it would be preferable to just use the ZKR7A-10 in the 1.2. When I pushed them on the iridium option they conferred with an ‘expert’ and then stated that the DPR7E-IX would be fine (it still needs 1.0 gap) and would cause no issues.

The 'original' Iridium that I bought (NGK Iridium DPR7E-IX)...
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250403147617&ssPageName=ADME:LMR:IE:1123
Paid £5.95 each

Denso ones (Denso Iridium IXU22) - I bought these ones as well...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360218126885
Paid £9.49 but sparkplugs.co.uk do them for £7.50

Spark plugs cross reference…
http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/pages/database/altresults-ccp.asp?partno=DCPR7E

The information on the VXU22 (Denso tough iridium)
http://www.globaldenso.com/en/products/aftermarket/plug/tough/features.html

Nice web site (Click here) explaining some technical info on spark plugs but they had no plugs suitable for the 500.

http://www.densoiridium.com/faq.php
Q. Do I need to set the gap?
A. Generally, no. The DENSO Iridium Power plug comes pre-set with a protective sleeve over the firing end, to protect the gap from accidental alteration. DENSO Iridium Power’s ultra-efficient firing power compensates for normally recommended gap settings that are smaller than the pre-set value. In the cases of vehicle modifications (nitrous, turbo-chargers,super-chargers, high power ignition systems, etc.), some adjustments may bedesired. Or, if you prefer to remain consistent with factory specifications,you may adjust. However, please be careful not to place any stress on thefine center electrode during adjustment. You could accidentally break off thevery hard, and therefore brittle, tip.

http://www.densoiridium.com/installationguide.php
To increase the gap size:
Step 1: Use needle nose pliers or spark plug gapping toolt o bend the ground strap up to the desired height. DO NOT LET THE PLIERS ORGAPPING TOOL TOUCH THE IRIDIUM CENTER ELECTRODE OR PORCELAIN.
Step 2: Re-check the gap with a calibrated gapping tool.

I'm posting the Bosch list with the UK part numbers for those who may be interested.


For:
FIA 2190 / 500 1.2 / 500 [150] / 1,2 / 51kW / 07/2007- / 169 A 4.000
FIA 2191 / 500 1.4 / 500 [150] / 1,4 / 74kW / 07/2007- / 169 A 3.000

Spark plug, Super plus(YR 7 DC+) 0 242 135 515
(0,90 mm electrode gap)

Spark plug, Platinum Ir CNG/LPG gas(YR 6 KI 332 S) 0 242 140 514
(Product for gas operation only - Replacement interval 30,000 km- 0,70 mm electrode gap)

Spark plug, Super CNG/LPG gas(YR 6 DES) 0 242 140 519
(Product for gas operation only - Replacement interval 15,000 km - 0,70 mm electrode gap)

Chrisilda said:

I'm posting the Bosch list with the UK part numbers for those who may be interested.

Click to expand...

Looks like Bosch have craved a niche for themselves on cars equipped with LPG. The narrow spark plug gap seems to be the norm for these cars...
http://www.lpg-kits.com/plugsFiat.htm
Fitting the Correct Spark Plugs for LPG - CNG or Petrol
Check to see what spark plugs you have fitted in your vehicle, if you have platinum or Iridium tipped spark plugs fitted they are No good for LPG or CNG there is No suchthing as an iridium or platinum LPG spark plug!
http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/Hints.html
Most often incorrect spark plugs have been fitted (not NGK or perhaps NGK but the wrong grade) and the gaps have not been reduced for LPG operation.

Got an email back from Denso giving this a reference site...
http://www.denso-am.eu/catalogue1.asp?make=FIAT&model=500%20%2807-%29&catid=0&srchType=1&srchTxt=fiat
and a list of recommended plugs (see attachment below). Note that the non iridium plug has the 'right' gap. Not too sure how key this is but I was of the belief that having a 0.8 gap would impact fuel economy. The T-jet has the narrow gap like the LPG setup to ensure that no detonation or misfire takes place.

Also the tough Denso iridium has a 'life' of 100K km - might be worth the little extra in cost over the normal iridium.
http://www.sparkplugs.com/sparkplug411.asp?kw=Fine+wire&mfid=0

Denso IridiumTough vs Standard Spark plug (part2)

loveshandbags said:

Got an email back from Denso giving this a reference site...
http://www.denso-am.eu/catalogue1.asp?make=FIAT&model=500%20%2807-%29&catid=0&srchType=1&srchTxt=fiat
and a list of recommended plugs...

Click to expand...

Useful link.

However, there is still scope for confusion.

The 169A400 fitted to the 1.2 500 is shown as being able to use both the IXU22 and the VXU22 - but if you do the same search for the 188A400 fitted to the 1.2 Panda, it recommends the IXU22, but not the VXU22 . I'd have expected the IXU/VXU plugs to be interchangeable across all applications (the only differences I can see are durability and price) and FIAT's own recommendation for the 188A400 is the DCPR7E-N-10, the same plugs as the 1.4 500, for which Denso recommends the VXU22. :bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

It would be interesting to see what kind of mpg I could get with the VXU22's fitted. Also, I'd be curious to see if it solves the commonly-reported problem (with the 1.2) of intermittent rough running after a cold start, particularly if the engine is shut down & restarted almost immediately.

But at close on £55 for four, it'd be a relatively costly experiment if they turned out to have an adverse effect - I could buy at least 5 sets of standard plugs for that money.

That said, for anyone paying someone else to fit them & planning on keeping the car, it's a complete no-brainer - they shouldn't need looking at again for another 60000 miles. Which makes you wonder why FIAT don't fit them as standard - at the prices I've heard some main dealers quoting, it'd knock the best part of £100 each off the first three full services.

Aahhh!!!!!!!! :bang:

For god's sake, it's spark plugs for a 1.2 8V Panda or 500, not O-rings for the space shuttle SRBs!

Why not just follow the official Fiat manual, or alternatively the specific recommendations of your preferred supplier?

I'm sure the original poster hasn't learned anything from this thread, except not to ask a simple question on this Forum! :devil:

bluejohn125 said:

Aahhh!!!!!!!! :bang:

For god's sake, it's spark plugs for a 1.2 8V Panda or 500, not O-rings for the space shuttle SRBs!

Why not just follow the official Fiat manual, or alternatively the specific recommendations of your preferred supplier?

I'm sure the original poster hasn't learned anything from this thread, except not to ask a simple question on this Forum! :devil:

Click to expand...

The OP's question was answered way back in post #3 .

What we're doing now is just exchanging a few alternative ideas - you never know when some bright spark (pun intended) will stumble across something that'll be useful to someone else further down the line. There are actually a number of useful links in this thread, some of which I'd likely not have found on my own.

But your post has brought some much-needed humour into the discussion, so thank you .