why, he Fiat tech (says in profile) loads Fiat techs here undercover.
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General Calling all start 'n' stop owners!
- Thread starter JimR123
- Start date
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General Calling all start 'n' stop owners!
D4nny8oy
Established member
they can read!
It's got plenty of big pictures and diagrams.
Even got some blank pages for them to use their crayon's...
Hows this then?
You telling me the battery in my car is never fully charged by a alternator but is by a Mains Powered battery charger
If the battery is recieving the correct charging amps then surly the battery will return to its maxium capacity wether these amps are coming from car or a battery charger?
keeforelli
Member
but would this cause the warning lights to come on?..and de activate the s/s completely?..because we know that if the battery cannot support the s/s operation due to heavy load you get a 's/s unavailable' message displayed.
mine will 99% of the time display the 'i' warning light with the 's/s de activated' warning light every time i start the car from cold and engage reverse to get off my drive.
if you stop and re start and then pull off going forwards it clears.
- if i dont do this, the system remains out of use for the entire journey.
this seems more like the system tripping up, or a bug, than battery condition, as the system is not available in reverse anyway, and will display when functioning normally 's/s unavailable' when reversing.
i think the concern here is, not one garage has managed to sort this out yet, so have all fiat technicians not recieved the training/equipment to deal with this?
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D4nny8oy
Established member
You telling me the battery in my car is never fully charged by a alternator but is by a Mains Powered battery charger
Just repeating what I've been told on courses- alternator's generate a surface charge on modern batteries (which the systems run-off), which disappates into the cells once the engine stops. This is why you could jump-start a knackered battery, drive around all day and it'll start ok, but as soon as it's left for a length of time (overnight) it'll be dead again.
Take your issue with your sister's Panda- on trickle charge it did nothing, all the charge soaked away. But give it a full deep-cycle/pulse charge and it was able to maintain it's volts/amps.
Once fitted, the IBS monitors the battery condition (voltage capacity, drop, etc) over the next 5 starts with a gap of at least 8 hours between them to determine the battery's ability to perform the repeated stop/start operations. If it's starting from a weak first-charge, you'll have system problems.
Usual training procedure is to send at least one Tech from each Dealer on the course, although some short-sighted Dealers merely see the cost involved and won't let their Tech go.
The course notes gave a detailed list of what various warning light/message combinations indicate, though I don't have them to hand, I think you're right in saying a Battery related issue would normally bring-up 'S/S Unavailable'.
Unfortunately as with all new Technologies, it takes a little time for solutions to be found for common issues that crop-up, and the symptoms you have suggest a software glitch which is out of the Tech's hands as it relies on Fiat/Bosch identifying the cause and finding a solution (whether it's a simple reprogramme, or requires modified parts).
At what part of the 'Start engine, press clutch, select Reverse, raise clutch, drive backwards" sequence do the warning messages occur?
For us (OP), it seems to always be the following sequence:
1. Start engine
2. Clutch down
3. Put gear into reverse
4. Lift clutch
5. Reverse about 2 metres
6. Generic failure light (!) and start/stop deactivated light come on together, whilst reversing
We have NEVER seen a message or light that we expect to get, where it should say something along the lines of "start 'n' stop can't work at the minute coz the car isn't ready for whatever reason".
It's almost as if the wrong lights are coming on, except they never go off again.
It does kinda seem as if it only happens when the car is cold, which is the kind of circumstances that I expect the start 'n' stop to not work. But, we have to stop the engine manually to remove the lights, as they never go off on their own.
And it doesn't look like it's just a lights thing as the start 'n' stop mechanism doesn't work while the lights are on, no matter how long we've been driving for.
My conclusion, so far, would be that when start 'n' stop should be temporarily disabled (due to unsuitable conditions), it is instead triggering off some kind of failure which disables the start 'n' stop until the engine is restarted. Strange how it only seems to happen when reversing though.
keeforelli
Member
D4nny8oy
Established member
Thank you.
So does the fault never occur when the engine's hot, only when it's cold?
After restarting and driving forwards again to 'reset' the system, if you reverse again, does the fault re-occur? How about if you switch-off, then restart and reverse?
Just trying to narrow-down which area the fault may lie.
Looking through the online info, it suggests there is definitely a 'fault' rather than 'pilot-error' as the system should be "unavailable" when cold, reversing, low batt voltage, etc but with the 'generic failure' lamp coming on it means a problem lies somewhere.
keeforelli
Member
Thank you.
So does the fault never occur when the engine's hot, only when it's cold?
After restarting and driving forwards again to 'reset' the system, if you reverse again, does the fault re-occur? How about if you switch-off, then restart and reverse?
Just trying to narrow-down which area the fault may lie.
Looking through the online info, it suggests there is definitely a 'fault' rather than 'pilot-error' as the system should be "unavailable" when cold, reversing, low batt voltage, etc but with the 'generic failure' lamp coming on it means a problem lies somewhere.
sometimes the warning lights will come on when the system is in use and the car is already in use, say on a roundabout with lots of s and s going on-
again to restart it you need to restart the car.
but by and large it is when the car has just been started and using reverse.
i will try to have a look at restarting to clear and engaging reverse to see if it re triggers-
the trigger initially seems to be reversing and releasing the clutch to move back then depressing it to slow again.
its frustrating but not yet a deal breaker.
any thoughts on what might b causing it?
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D4nny8oy
Established member
There is a recall on a small batch of cars with faulty 'neutral' sensors on the gearlever, though apparently the fault (spontaneous interruption of S/S operation) tends to occur when hot. Maybe you have two faults?
What's the last 8 digits of your chassis number? - I'll check if your's is one of the batch.
What's the last 8 digits of your chassis number? - I'll check if your's is one of the batch.
keeforelli
Member
cool!
can i just be dumb quickly and ask where it is?..couldnt find it under the bonnet!!
in the boot
Ours is 00355379.
The dealer has already replaced some kind of switch underneath the gear lever, but it didn't seem to have any effect.
D4nny8oy
Established member
Your's is outside the range that Fiat list, the Dealer tech probably replaced it to be on the safe-side.
Another idea then, :idea:
After starting the car, try pressing the clutch pedal fully down, then releasing it, then select reverse and see if the fault appears.
And to narrow things down further- can everyone with this Start/stop fault list their vehicle spec?
eg, 1.2/1.4, manual gearbox/duallogic, etc
well I've had my car back. I left the garage, drove home (10 mins) left it for approx 1hr and then went on a 45min car journey. All was going well no ss not available signs and no warning triangle came up. However whilst undertaking my 45min journey about an hour later, I hit traffic at a roundabout so had to break on several occasions. The ss not available light came on and the warning triangle which didn't go off for the entire journey. I arrived at my destination, left the car for approx 45mins then started on another journey which was about 1hr. The ss not available sign and warning triangle never went off even though I'd switched the car off twice and switched it back on to try and get rid of it (this has worked previously). What I'm finding is that if I have to break a couple of times when I'm moving through a queue of traffic this is when the ss not available and warning triangle come on and sometimes when I switch off engine and re-start a couple of times it goes off. However I have now found that when it does go off successfully following re starting engine the ss doesn't work at all and I've got no warning on the dash, no lights illuminated to inform me of this (didn't have this problem before). I'm now totally baffled My brake pedal is really springy too and makes a noisy as if my foot had slipped off brake when I press it (it hadn't by the way). Any thoughts? I'm ringing garage again tomorrow and my technician had been on the course.
My brake pedal is really springy too and makes a noisy as if my foot had slipped off brake when I press it (it hadn't by the way). Any thoughts? I'm ringing garage again tomorrow and my technician had been on the course.mines a 1.2 manual and still waiting for garage servicing to ring me back. It's really putting me off the car and I'm resulting to manually switching off the ss to ensure it doesn't cut out. It stalled as it were 3 times tonight, it's getting embarassing and dangerous. I can't see why the garage can't just change my car to a standard 1.2 manual. I don't trust the ss system anymore. Sorry don't mean to moan. Just fed up. I scrapped a banger from which I had no problems for a car that is 2 wks old and won't drive properly, oh yeah and cost over £8k.
5 start 'n' stop 'n' start 'n' stop owners so far, and all of them have the fault.
This must mean that either all start 'n' stop owners have the problem, and Fiat don't look boverred, or start 'n' stop owners are only drawn to this forum and thread if they have the problem.
Hmmmm...
This must mean that either all start 'n' stop owners have the problem, and Fiat don't look boverred, or start 'n' stop owners are only drawn to this forum and thread if they have the problem.
Hmmmm...
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Just a Quick Question Once the warning lights have come on - will they go off once you've travelled forwards a couple of hundred metres without switching off and restarting.
I only ask because I remember reading somewhere in the dim and distant past (probably about the VW polo) that the ss has to be inactive by law when the car is in reverse as you are deemed to have better control when reversing in carparks etc if the engine doesn't keep kicking in and out.
May explain why its happening but not why its not re-setting properly.
Once the warning lights have come on - will they go off once you've travelled forwards a couple of hundred metres without switching off and restarting.I only ask because I remember reading somewhere in the dim and distant past (probably about the VW polo) that the ss has to be inactive by law when the car is in reverse as you are deemed to have better control when reversing in carparks etc if the engine doesn't keep kicking in and out.
May explain why its happening but not why its not re-setting properly.
