General First Oil Change
- Thread starter virgo80
- Start date
Currently reading:
General First Oil Change
It is advisable to do the first oil change within the first 1500 miles of ownership. I worked for FMNA in the Technical Warranty Claims Department and every new FIAT sold required an oil change within the first 30 days of ownership or 1500 miles. Flushing out any debris or metal shavings is the prime reason for doing it so soon and within the critical break-in period. Always change the oil filter as well with every oil change. This is the cheapest and most valuable insurance against expensive engine repairs down the road.
Well apparently I can't get a Fiat dealership to change my oil for me even though I'm supposed to get free changes for the first 3 years. Every service department I talked to argued with me that I didn't need to have it done and I finally had to hang up on one guy who started yelling at me. I seriously hope this isn't a sign of things to come with Fiat's service departments.
SFStaggie
New member
The reason no dealer would do it for you is that the first scheduled oil change is at 8,000 miles or at six months, whichever comes first.
The "metal shavings" and whatnot don't exist. There is no need to change the oil at 1500 miles. If you want to change the oil anyway, go ahead, but don't expect the dealer to do it.
The "metal shavings" and whatnot don't exist. There is no need to change the oil at 1500 miles. If you want to change the oil anyway, go ahead, but don't expect the dealer to do it.
Last edited:
On European 500's FIAT's recommendation is for the first oil change to be carried out at 18000 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first.
There seems to be some very funny ideas floating around about new engines and oil changes at ridiculously low miles. Where has this misconception about metal shavings contaminating new engines come from? I agree, metal is moving against metal, but really, it isn't that bad, surely?
Brand new engines are 'run in' to a certain degree at the factory prior to shipping. Having visited the production line at both the Nissan car plant in Oppama in Japan and the BMW plant at Rossyln in South Africa, I have witnessed engine testing and running in prior to shipping. It is then the responsibility of the owner to not 'over stress' the engine in the first thousand miles or so.
I just don't understand why some insist on changing their oil so early. Seems like a mighty waste of time and money and whether it is entirely endorsed by the vehicle manufacturer seems questionable.
ahmett
Prominent member
They probably give you a free oil change after 10 car washes over there across in the generous pond! In 'poor' Europe we are more economical!
Joking aside i change my oil every 30,000 km so i would be having a laugh if i ever considered changing it after 1000 miles!!!
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
There has been a lot of threads on oil changes recently and the conclusion that 'we' came to was 3K miles on the first change (Click here).
I'm conscious that the engine in the North American is different to the one in the European 500. It is the block of the 'old' 1368cc 1.4 engine with a new Multi-air head which is different to the all new Multi-air Twin engine which has probably got tighter tolerances all round.
Also SFStaggie mentions a 6 months interval on the first oil change as per the North American service schedule. This would have to be adhered to keep the warranty.
Given that yours is the 'old' block I would be inclined to change at 1000 miles and then at 6 months as per the manual and then annually thereafter. The US A500 states 8000 miles. What does the US 'standard' Fiat 500 give in the manual for the mileage change i.e for 2nd or subsequent oil changes ?
I would regard the first 1000 miles as the break in period and would not be going past 4K revs. I think one of the 500 models (possibly the Abarth) - the ECU restricts the revs for a certain mileage. There is a recommendation on the FF as to how to break your engine in. This should keep you going in the meantime...
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/saturday-mechanic-blog/how-to-break-in-a-new-car
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_should_you_'break-in'_a_new_car
It's a good link Loveshandbags with an interesting read. A trawl through the www has revealed many similar veins of advice and indeed, all well worth following. Never fully understood why some people just get into a new car and rag it without following the Manufacturers advice. Then again, how many people actually sit down and read fully through their vehicle manual?
Again though, none of the articles that I have read have included any reference to car engines being run in at the factory. Why is that? Not an antagonistic question whatsoever, but it is important in my view and yet no one seems to pay it much attention. Fact is, the Manufacturer has done a lot of the hard work before the customer even gets the car.
I wasn't aware of the differences between the USA and European engines, so it has been good to be enlightened.
Still, I'm glad our own oil was changed at 4100 miles from new and within the first year. I'd consider that as about right in our own vehicle usage circumstances.
Again though, none of the articles that I have read have included any reference to car engines being run in at the factory. Why is that? Not an antagonistic question whatsoever, but it is important in my view and yet no one seems to pay it much attention. Fact is, the Manufacturer has done a lot of the hard work before the customer even gets the car.
I wasn't aware of the differences between the USA and European engines, so it has been good to be enlightened.
Still, I'm glad our own oil was changed at 4100 miles from new and within the first year. I'd consider that as about right in our own vehicle usage circumstances.
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
There is a so much stuff out there but there's a recommendation on FF on how to break in with varying your driving and not nailing it from the word go.
When the OH got her MiTo she never opened the manual and got the 'man in the Garage' to hook up her mobile to the handsfree. Very few people actually read the manual. There are a few exceptions.
I did come across a clip of a manufacturer running an engine on the bench to do the initial breaking in - something that was not done on older engines in my 'father's time'. So the break in is not as critical as it used to be. JR did post about other components needing 'breaking in' or I should say 'bedding in' like the suspension, brakes, drivetrain, etc.
The North American Engine is the same as the Multi-air in the later Punto Evo and the later MiTo. In turbo charged form the power it's turned down a bit from the 170bhp MiTo & 165bhp Punto Evo Abarth but it hasn't got the beefed up 6 speed because it wouldn't fit in their A500. The 5 speed from the Alfa 147 in used in both US & European in the A500. They also can't fit the standard 6 speed in the 'standard' US Fiat 500 but they have a 6 speed true automatic.
http://www.abarthisti.co.uk/magazine/2010/03/the-new-abarth-punto-evo/
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/c...esse_1_4_multiair_turbo_180_startandstop.html
I can't understand why some spend £13K+ on a new motor and then do their first oil change at 18K miles. It makes no sense to me - all to save c.£100.
Last edited:
Worth mentioning too, when the engine has been run in on the bench, they drain the oil and refill with fresh, well they did whilst on my factory visits.
Good point about owners not changing their oil until the car has done 18,000 miles. I realise there are owners who have absolutely no issues with this, after all, they are merely following the manual/dealer advice, 18k or 1 year. I just can't see that the oil would be much good after that mileage use. Then again, I realise people will think I'm a fruit cake for changing my oil when it has reached a maximum of 6000 miles.
Good point about owners not changing their oil until the car has done 18,000 miles. I realise there are owners who have absolutely no issues with this, after all, they are merely following the manual/dealer advice, 18k or 1 year. I just can't see that the oil would be much good after that mileage use. Then again, I realise people will think I'm a fruit cake for changing my oil when it has reached a maximum of 6000 miles.
Just a couple of thoughts about breaking in a new engine. These are just my suggestions, and if you disagree, that's fine.
The rule I have followed over the years has been to just not over stress the engine for the first 1000 miles. When starting up, don't drive right off with a cold engine, but just take a minute to allow the oil to warm up before heading out. You don't have to sit there idling, because that isn't good either. Just start up, let the engine idle for 60 seconds, then drive normally.
Don't race the engine and just accelerate smoothly up to cruising speed.
If you are on a highway, don't stay at the same RPM's but move your speed up and down at intervals.
I know that the new engine designs allow for longer periods between oil changes, especially if you are using synthetics, but I still like to change my oil on a three month basis. Old habits die hard.
The cars I have owned and that I have treated this way, and then passed on down to the kids, are still cruising along beautifully. One car has just been handed through three generations of owners and it's still going strong.
The rule I have followed over the years has been to just not over stress the engine for the first 1000 miles. When starting up, don't drive right off with a cold engine, but just take a minute to allow the oil to warm up before heading out. You don't have to sit there idling, because that isn't good either. Just start up, let the engine idle for 60 seconds, then drive normally.
Don't race the engine and just accelerate smoothly up to cruising speed.
If you are on a highway, don't stay at the same RPM's but move your speed up and down at intervals.
I know that the new engine designs allow for longer periods between oil changes, especially if you are using synthetics, but I still like to change my oil on a three month basis. Old habits die hard.
The cars I have owned and that I have treated this way, and then passed on down to the kids, are still cruising along beautifully. One car has just been handed through three generations of owners and it's still going strong.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2010
- Messages
- 3,696
- Points
- 795
Nice post - thank you. Certainly no harm in being cautious. I for one would enjoy seeing pictures of your hand-me-down cars over the years (especially as they may be a bit different to most of us on the Forum are used to).
3 months for an oil change is crazy, it'll cost you more in oil and filters than the saving in engine wear.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2012
- Messages
- 239
- Points
- 53
In 15yrs + of working in the motor trade i have always worked on the following principles regarding oil changes.
1) Metal fillings is a myth. In the hundreds and hundreds of vans i have sold (Some which have been abused since day 1 in a manner which is 100 times worse than any of you could inflict on your cars) not one vehicle has had any metal fillings evident other than if there has been a traceable breakdown of a part elsewhere in the engine.
2) On collection i give every customer 1 litre of the specific oil and tell them to keep an eye on the oil level for the first few thousand miles. Dont even do this anymore, the vehicles i sell now tell the customer when and how much oil is required on the dash.
3) Only advice i ever give about running the engine in is to refrain from bouncing the rev counter. Its ok to sit at 70mph on the mway and its ok to sit at whatever the legal speeds are. These days 70mph isnt exactly taxing the engines anyhow. The thing they shouldnt do in the early days is have the rev counter dancing about like its on speed.
4) The worst vehicles i ever experience are the ones that are driven like a nun. They eventually get asked to do something extra and thats when everything else starts ailing.
Just collected my 500 last week and as it will be such a low mileage car it will get its oil changed once per annum as per the instructions. Other than the myth about fillings the only other reason to change oil is due to it losing its viscosity due to use. A lot of manufacturers have sensors which tell the customer when this is at a level where the oil needs changed which is how the variable servicing works. Just because its black doesnt mean it isnt doing its job.
1) Metal fillings is a myth. In the hundreds and hundreds of vans i have sold (Some which have been abused since day 1 in a manner which is 100 times worse than any of you could inflict on your cars) not one vehicle has had any metal fillings evident other than if there has been a traceable breakdown of a part elsewhere in the engine.
2) On collection i give every customer 1 litre of the specific oil and tell them to keep an eye on the oil level for the first few thousand miles. Dont even do this anymore, the vehicles i sell now tell the customer when and how much oil is required on the dash.
3) Only advice i ever give about running the engine in is to refrain from bouncing the rev counter. Its ok to sit at 70mph on the mway and its ok to sit at whatever the legal speeds are. These days 70mph isnt exactly taxing the engines anyhow. The thing they shouldnt do in the early days is have the rev counter dancing about like its on speed.
4) The worst vehicles i ever experience are the ones that are driven like a nun. They eventually get asked to do something extra and thats when everything else starts ailing.
Just collected my 500 last week and as it will be such a low mileage car it will get its oil changed once per annum as per the instructions. Other than the myth about fillings the only other reason to change oil is due to it losing its viscosity due to use. A lot of manufacturers have sensors which tell the customer when this is at a level where the oil needs changed which is how the variable servicing works. Just because its black doesnt mean it isnt doing its job.
Probably the most sensible, logical post on oil I've seen.
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
I probably going against the grain here but here goes...
Vans. The ones that I see generally are new ones. The olds one are puffing a lot of black smoke out the back exhaust and I wonder how it got past the NCT / MOT.
Vans have diesel engines which are a lot tougher than the petrol engines with some the new ones having a lot of wizary with variable timing etc.
In the last few cars that I've had I have always had to top the oil up. Keeping it at the max level is good since that extra bit of oil 'adds life' to the oil.
Turbos are becoming more prevalent now in the quest for lower emissions. BMW has just released a 328i with a 2L + turbo as opposed to a straight 6 cylinder putting out around 230+bhp. The oil in this engine would have a harder working life.
The T-jet engine in 150bhp+ form feels quite stressed in Sport / Dynamic mode and the TwinAir from memory was the same.
A key factor in Turbo life are oil changes.
In relation to the fragments and bits in the oil - these can't be seen - but they are there and are good for breaking the engine in. On a new engine IMHO changing at 6 months is still a good idea. Thereafter at 12 months sounds reasonable once one is not 'tracking' the car or putting it onto a RR or being totally juvenille.
The sensor thing about changing the oil is for Diesels. Have had no car to-date that would have it for petrol engines.
I would agree with you about the 'nun' driven cars.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2012
- Messages
- 239
- Points
- 53
I dont think we are a million miles apart.
Yes my experience is with diesels and i suppose you could say older ones do put out some black smoke. Maybe it is just diesels which have the variable servicing indicators but the point regarding the visocity of the oil remains. If oil hasnt broken down, just because it is black doesnt mean it isnt doing the job 100% and doesnt need replacing.
I will agree to dissagree about the fragments. I know my workshops can test the oil for fragments in one way or another even if it cant be seen. I have never experienced them telling me it is anything other than a broken component elsewhere on the engine though.
At the end of the day the only real thing we dont agree on is the fragments. An oil change at 6mths or 12mths on a new engine is just someones personal choice.
Yes my experience is with diesels and i suppose you could say older ones do put out some black smoke. Maybe it is just diesels which have the variable servicing indicators but the point regarding the visocity of the oil remains. If oil hasnt broken down, just because it is black doesnt mean it isnt doing the job 100% and doesnt need replacing.
I will agree to dissagree about the fragments. I know my workshops can test the oil for fragments in one way or another even if it cant be seen. I have never experienced them telling me it is anything other than a broken component elsewhere on the engine though.
At the end of the day the only real thing we dont agree on is the fragments. An oil change at 6mths or 12mths on a new engine is just someones personal choice.
Maxi, You are absolutely CORRECT! I didn't realize that Fiat recommends that you use synthetic oil with the new 500. That sure changes the equation for oil changes from regular oil which ran about 30 dollars for an oil change, $120 per year if you used the three month formula. Of course with synthetic oil the changes are much more expensive and are certainly not needed at 3 month intervals. I think the current recommendation is 8,000 miles, but I would like to think in time, what's the average folks put in? 10,000 miles per year? I think once per year is a definite possibility with synthetics.
How's that sound, maxi?
Last edited:
