Just received the June issue of "Motor Trend". Small article on page 69 concerning the Spring 2012 intro of the Abarth 500 in the USA (and assume the rest of the Americas).

Assuming they aren't making it up, they write that the Abarth will make "roughly" 160 HP & 160 pounds-feet of torque (assume SAE vice Metric). In addition, they mention a "stiffer" suspension (Duh) as well as the addition of a 6-speed manual gearbox to replace the 500's 5-speed. If this is true, I consider it very good news. Does anyone know if Fiat has a gearbox for this application or if perhaps the Getrag would work?

If in fact correct, these specs would show that Fiat/Chrysler have done their homework about what is needed for a successful USA Abarth launch next year. Oh, and they mention it costing a "few" thousand more than the standard 500. Of course, they just be blowing it out of their nether regions but I hope not!

From what I understand the US Abarth will get the Multiair Turbo (as used on the current Punto EVO) which comes with a 6 speed manual gearbox. I would assume that the "shifter" tranny will be a version of the TCT dual clutch semi-auto which is currently being rolled out within the Group

Price - actually the Abarth is not too much over the standard well specced 500 and about the same as the 500C (top spec) .......so the claim of reasonable pricing is believable

cheers

If there is going to be a 6-speed manual, it will be a true foot/clutch/shift transmission. Semi-auto gearboxes haven't been sold here since the Beetle back in the early 1970's. A DSG twin-clutch is considered an automatic as is, of course, a torque converter type. An actual manual would be considered mandatory for this type of car (even if few are sold that way). I believe that a large percentage of "S" MINIs are sold with the Getrag 6-speed. I know it is mandatory for me to buy it!

If there is going to be a 6-speed manual, it will be a true foot/clutch/shift transmission. Semi-auto gearboxes haven't been sold here since the Beetle debacle back in the early 1970's . They tried again with the Smart...and that was a disaster. A DSG twin-clutch is considered an automatic as is, of course, the traditional torque converter.

An actual manual would be considered a mandatory option for this type of car over here (even if few are sold that way). I believe that a large percentage of the MINI S model are sold with the Getrag 6-speed. I know an actual manual (5 or 6-speed) is mandatory for me to buy it!

geeded said:

I know an actual manual (5 or 6-speed) is mandatory for me to buy it!

Click to expand...

From another thread geeded you mentioned that you were 2nd in line to 'get' a A500 for the start of 2012 but you learnt some weeks ago that you may not get your order until the mid 2012 ?
Have you had any update from the studio as to when they would expect to get it ?

Howdy,

First, I don't want to misrepresent. I am second in line, at my dealer, not the entire NA continent .

As to your question, I have been pestering the forums that are actually in the know in the US for any concrete info but they are (smartly) playing it very close to the vest. The best I've been able to get is the car will be "hardcore" and possibly in short supply, but I won't be disappointed.

HP could be anywhere between 148 & 185.... Who knows? Our local "in" with the people who know, expects more precise info to be released in July. That site is Fiat500usa.com and it will give anyone who is interested as much info about the NA 500 as you desire (almost). Everything from in-depth pictorial articles on the chassis differences to the history of the Abarth 500 are available. Their attached forum is a great place to keep informed in depth on the NA 500.

It should be of interest to everyone as most (if not all) of the changes will make up your upcoming facelifted 2012 version. OTOH, you will have a boatload of engine choices while we have only one until the Abarth arrives.

There has been conflicting information on whether the Abarth will bow during the 1st quarter of 2012 as originally announced or if will be pushed back to the 2nd quarter. I am rooting for 1st quarter intro with 6-spd (true) manual & 185 HP..... ... I do however happen to have a horse in this hunt and a long wait, no matter what, still to come. We will see....

Cheers

geeded said:

Howdy,

First, I don't want to misrepresent. I am second in line, at my dealer, not the entire NA continent .

As to your question, I have been pestering the forums that are actually in the know in the US for any concrete info but they are (smartly) playing it very close to the vest. The best I've been able to get is the car will be "hardcore" and possibly in short supply, but I won't be disappointed.

HP could be anywhere between 148 & 185.... Who knows? Our local "in" with the people who know, expects more precise info to be released in July. That site is Fiat500usa.com and it will give anyone who is interested as much info about the NA 500 as you desire (almost). Everything from in-depth pictorial articles on the chassis differences to the history of the Abarth 500 are available. Their attached forum is a great place to keep informed in depth on the NA 500.

It should be of interest to everyone as most (if not all) of the changes will make up your upcoming facelifted 2012 version. OTOH, you will have a boatload of engine choices while we have only one until the Abarth arrives.

There has been conflicting information on whether the Abarth will bow during the 1st quarter of 2012 as originally announced or if will be pushed back to the 2nd quarter. I am rooting for 1st quarter intro with 6-spd (true) manual & 185 HP..... ... I do however happen to have a horse in this hunt and a long wait, no matter what, still to come. We will see....

Cheers

Click to expand...

Thanks for that Geeded. I'll still remember you as the guy who is second in line in NA.
I'm not too sure how accurate that Car magazine is.
If you drive a European A500 the standard output of 135bhp is plenty good enough (actual output is between 140-145bhp) but we can keep that quiet for insurance guys.
The higher output of 160bhp can be a little hot to handle for some individuals.
IMHO with your standard Multi-air spitting out 101bhp I reckon there would be a market for 2 versons of the A500 leaving the higher output model for more hard core drivers.
So with the MA and the turbo I reckon you will see an extra 10bhp on top of our figures which will help with the little extra weight you will be carrying on the new 'improvements'.
Is there any reason why you would think that there will be only one version A500 or maybe I could have mis-interpreted a previous posting?

loveshandbags said:

Thanks for that Geeded. I'll still remember you as the guy who is second in line in NA.
I'm not too sure how accurate that Car magazine is.
If you drive a European A500 the standard output of 135bhp is plenty good enough (actual output is between 140-145bhp) but we can keep that quiet for insurance guys.
The higher output of 160bhp can be a little hot to handle for some individuals.
IMHO with your standard Multi-air spitting out 101bhp I reckon there would be a market for 2 versons of the A500 leaving the higher output model for more hard core drivers.
So with the MA and the turbo I reckon you will see an extra 10bhp on top of our figures which will help with the little extra weight you will be carrying on the new 'improvements'.
Is there any reason why you would think that there will be only one version A500 or maybe I could have mis-interpreted a previous posting?

Click to expand...

Greetings,

Some of the info from those who "should" know is saying that the Abarth will be VERY limited in numbers and very high in performance. If that is indeed true, it will be used as a "halo" car for Fiat in NA as well as limited availability and thus being able to charge way too much to buy.... The word is that even if you have a deposit that is no guarantee you will receive an Abarth. Now, I didn't just leave a deposit, the dealer and I signed a contract stipulating to the amount over MSRP that might be allowed (not much) and that I will have the 2nd Abarth for said dealer. For my part, I gave them $500 over a year in advance for them to use. Since there will only be around 130 dealers in the ENTIRE United States, I don't think I'll have any trouble.

The above is why I don't think there will be a regular and an SS version, at least to start. The above is also based on info from other people whose opinion I respect but I can not verify, so YMMV.

It has come to light in the past few days that Fiat was woefully wrong on the dealer mixture of Auto to Manual 500's. People from both the East & West coasts have said that dealers are offering $1500 off list (West coast) to $2000 off (East) for people buying the Pop Auto (this is a huge percentage off a $16k car).

Apparently there are some Americans who still prefer an actual clutch (myself included), also, for the more frugal, a manual saves around $1000 added to the price of the Pop. This is significant for a number of reasons, i.e. from people actually wanting the unfiltered driving experience of a manual, to "how cheap can I get one of those|". Also surprising because the 6-spd auto being used in NA is a very good one (same as the MINI), and not some sort of "auto-manual" which have never been popular here (see SMART).

Here in the States a 101 HP car is considered VERY underpowered. Normal brake HP for B segment cars ranges from 120 to 140 HP, give or take. Diesel fuel here is not subsidized and costs more than gas (petrol). Anything over 30 mpg is considered good and people will pay ridiculous amounts of cash to save a few more mpg IF their car looks "eco" (see Prius). This is a long way around to get to my point. First 135 hp will NOT be considered a performance engine, period. So the Abarth will go big or go home on this front. Even if they are going to make it a readily available model, the HP will have to be the same or close to the MINI S and sell cheaper. When the base Korean car comes with 128 hp, no one will take 135 hp seriously.

If Fiat wants to bring in another engine for the regular 500, it should be bigger (HP-wise), not smaller. I believe that the 500 would sell much better here with an extra 20 horses, no matter that few people will actually use them in day-to-day driving. Just my opinion of course.

Hope some of this is helpful...and makes sense

Cheers

geeded said:

Greetings,

Some of the info from those who "should" know is saying that the Abarth will be VERY limited in numbers and very high in performance. If that is indeed true, it will be used as a "halo" car for Fiat in NA as well as limited availability and thus being able to charge way too much to buy.... The word is that even if you have a deposit that is no guarantee you will receive an Abarth. Now, I didn't just leave a deposit, the dealer and I signed a contract stipulating to the amount over MSRP that might be allowed (not much) and that I will have the 2nd Abarth for said dealer. For my part, I gave them $500 over a year in advance for them to use. Since there will only be around 130 dealers in the ENTIRE United States, I don't think I'll have any trouble.

The above is why I don't think there will be a regular and an SS version, at least to start. The above is also based on info from other people whose opinion I respect but I can not verify, so YMMV.

It has come to light in the past few days that Fiat was woefully wrong on the dealer mixture of Auto to Manual 500's. People from both the East & West coasts have said that dealers are offering $1500 off list (West coast) to $2000 off (East) for people buying the Pop Auto (this is a huge percentage off a $16k car).

Apparently there are some Americans who still prefer an actual clutch (myself included), also, for the more frugal, a manual saves around $1000 added to the price of the Pop. This is significant for a number of reasons, i.e. from people actually wanting the unfiltered driving experience of a manual, to "how cheap can I get one of those|". Also surprising because the 6-spd auto being used in NA is a very good one (same as the MINI), and not some sort of "auto-manual" which have never been popular here (see SMART).

Here in the States a 101 HP car is considered VERY underpowered. Normal brake HP for B segment cars ranges from 120 to 140 HP, give or take. Diesel fuel here is not subsidized and costs more than gas (petrol). Anything over 30 mpg is considered good and people will pay ridiculous amounts of cash to save a few more mpg IF their car looks "eco" (see Prius). This is a long way around to get to my point. First 135 hp will NOT be considered a performance engine, period. So the Abarth will go big or go home on this front. Even if they are going to make it a readily available model, the HP will have to be the same or close to the MINI S and sell cheaper. When the base Korean car comes with 128 hp, no one will take 135 hp seriously.

If Fiat wants to bring in another engine for the regular 500, it should be bigger (HP-wise), not smaller. I believe that the 500 would sell much better here with an extra 20 horses, no matter that few people will actually use them in day-to-day driving. Just my opinion of course.

Hope some of this is helpful...and makes sense

Cheers

Click to expand...

It's good to hear the feedback from enthusiasts like yourself from 'across the pond'. Now the Abarth section FF is only a click away and there are inputs from individuals who actually have Abarths (I'm only a wannabe) who are more qualified to express an opinion than a guy who has only test driven a standard A500 and an esseesse model. The price difference between these two is €2,750 and looking at the base line price of a MINI Cooper S at $23,700 it is going to be a tough market for a A500 (SS power level) to compete in. I wouldn't even try and attempt to defend an Abarth position but those that have bought them wouldn't dream of driving a MINI afterwards. If and when you end up in the A500 in NA you will drive something that will be unique and will stand out from the 'crowd' plus it will be more FUN to drive but it will not compete in a 'head to head'. The A500 Multi-air should be lighter and more economical so that should tick the technical checkbox. To summarise the point from a reputable magazine called EVO (a bible for some) and this is on the 'old' engine...
The Abarth isn’t a genuine talent, it can’t match the Mini’s completeness, but despite the flaws it is emphatically not an ersatz hot hatch, a fashion trinket done up in sporting bling. It knows how to show you a good time. That’s enough. More than enough.

loveshandbags said:

It's good to hear the feedback from enthusiasts like yourself from 'across the pond'. Now the Abarth section FF is only a click away and there are inputs from individuals who actually have Abarths (I'm only a wannabe) who are more qualified to express an opinion than a guy who has only test driven a standard A500 and an esseesse model. The price difference between these two is €2,750 and looking at the base line price of a MINI Cooper S at $23,700 it is going to be a tough market for a A500 (SS power level) to compete in. I wouldn't even try and attempt to defend an Abarth position but those that have bought them wouldn't dream of driving a MINI afterwards. If and when you end up in the A500 in NA you will drive something that will be unique and will stand out from the 'crowd' plus it will be more FUN to drive but it will not compete in a 'head to head'. The A500 Multi-air should be lighter and more economical so that should tick the technical checkbox. To summarise the point from a reputable magazine called EVO (a bible for some) and this is on the 'old' engine...
The Abarth isn’t a genuine talent, it can’t match the Mini’s completeness, but despite the flaws it is emphatically not an ersatz hot hatch, a fashion trinket done up in sporting bling. It knows how to show you a good time. That’s enough. More than enough.

Click to expand...

Oh, I agree with the Abarth here.

One of our cars is a 2006 MINI S (last year for the first gen in the USA & bought new), and even though it's pushing 122k miles now & we belong to a Mini club, we just can't get excited about the 2nd gen (really, really hate the cheesy interior). That's one reason we jumped on the arrival of the Abarth, in addition to the reasons you mention.

We live in the mountains of North Carolina and want a car that can we can "point & squirt" around these fantastic roads. I owned a 2004 R32 and LOVED it, BUT I ended up selling because it would go so fast, so quick, that I stood a very good chance of coming around a blind curve and going up the bum of a slow moving tractor (very rural area). So the Abarth looks to be a hoot while not have to travel at 80 mpg.

I mean, a Mustang GT with a 400+ brake HP, manual, aircon, etc can be had out the door here for the equivalent of 20k Euros. An epic auto but not safe (for me) on these back roads. I still subscribe to the "slower car fast" as opposed to the "fast car slow". In other words, useable performance is what I'm after and if I get to have a rare auto for my ego, so much the better.

All of my discussion about Fiat's (possible) decisions and consequences are just speculation and best guess. We'll see what they come up with and what their plan is. In any case, I'm in for an Abarth (providing they sell it here with an acutual manual transmission, not real worried about that).

Oh, and it will be a Fiat Abarth here, just another model, at the top of the range. It's hard enough to launch one brand, much less two!

Cheers

geeded said:

Oh, I agree with the Abarth here.

One of our cars is a 2006 MINI S (last year for the first gen in the USA & bought new), and even though it's pushing 122k miles now & we belong to a Mini club, we just can't get excited about the 2nd gen (really, really hate the cheesy interior). That's one reason we jumped on the arrival of the Abarth, in addition to the reasons you mention.

We live in the mountains of North Carolina and want a car that can we can "point & squirt" around these fantastic roads. I owned a 2004 R32 and LOVED it, BUT I ended up selling because it would go so fast, so quick, that I stood a very good chance of coming around a blind curve and going up the bum of a slow moving tractor (very rural area). So the Abarth looks to be a hoot while not have to travel at 80 mpg.

I mean, a Mustang GT with a 400+ brake HP, manual, aircon, etc can be had out the door here for the equivalent of 20k Euros. An epic auto but not safe (for me) on these back roads. I still subscribe to the "slower car fast" as opposed to the "fast car slow". In other words, useable performance is what I'm after and if I get to have a rare auto for my ego, so much the better.

All of my discussion about Fiat's (possible) decisions and consequences are just speculation and best guess. We'll see what they come up with and what their plan is. In any case, I'm in for an Abarth (providing they sell it here with an acutual manual transmission, not real worried about that).

Oh, and it will be a Fiat Abarth here, just another model, at the top of the range. It's hard enough to launch one brand, much less two!

Cheers

Click to expand...

On a trip to the US in a hired car coming into Boston I saw a lot of plates with Viriginia and North Carolina on the back. Everyone was doing 85-90mpg. Seems that half of those coming into Boston are lawyers so that they don't seem to ‘police’ the speed as much as other states. Hopefully your Plod are not too active where you're based.

Your old Cooper S is a fast motor. Supercharger although giving an amazing instant power is a guzzler. Heard a few guys only getting in the low 20s (Euro) on them. With petrol in Ireland at €6.70 a gallon mpg it is an issue. I see your US gallon is around $3.60 ?

The A500 will never match the acceleration of even your ‘old’ one but with a projected 135grs/km it will live up to Laura Soave’s (US Fiat marketing) as been greener. Quite a few guys with the 135bhp A500 in the UK have had the ECU ‘piggybacked’ to increase the output to 160bhp. In power to weight terms with the Cooper S – it ‘will be up there’.

Gearbox in the US. Reckon this is will be a 5 speed and a manual. Unlikely that Fiat will develop a 6 speed for the US market in a 'standard' A500 but you never know. In the A500c in Europe it only came with a MTA but has just recently being offered with the manual. Interesting enough the MTA is Europe although a bit jerky is more economical than the manual. Understand your Auto impacts the mpg hence the ‘swing’ to manual.

Last Sunday that was a top gear special on BBC 2 (UK station). Unfortunately you cannot view it through BBC Iplayer (but there are always around this ). Subject of a very interesting thread. One of the reviewers – a Richard Hammond – said that ‘he would not change a thing on the car’ referring to the A500c esseesse.

The ‘Citroen DS3 Racing’ won the day but it is priced at a higher price of £24K as opposed to a base price of £14,700 on a standard A500. The one in the video was priced nearer £20K.

When your Abarths arrive in the ‘Studios’ I reckon that Italy will insist on them been kitted out by Abarth fitting specialists. The Abarth marquee is heavily protected. In Europe you must have 6 Abarths in the Garage to sell them. It will be interesting to see what will happen in the US.

Picture of the A500c esseesse in the URL below and a small clip from the ‘coverage’.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/26/top-gear-spotted-testing-hot-hatches-in-tuscany/

Saw that episode. I'm still annoyed by the producers' decisions! Arg!

loveshandbags said:

On a trip to the US in a hired car coming into Boston I saw a lot of plates with Viriginia and North Carolina on the back. Everyone was doing 85-90mpg. Seems that half of those coming into Boston are lawyers so that they don't seem to ‘police’ the speed as much as other states. Hopefully your Plod are not too active where you're based.

Your old Cooper S is a fast motor. Supercharger although giving an amazing instant power is a guzzler. Heard a few guys only getting in the low 20s (Euro) on them. With petrol in Ireland at €6.70 a gallon mpg it is an issue. I see your US gallon is around $3.60 ?

The A500 will never match the acceleration of even your ‘old’ one but with a projected 135grs/km it will live up to Laura Soave’s (US Fiat marketing) as been greener. Quite a few guys with the 135bhp A500 in the UK have had the ECU ‘piggybacked’ to increase the output to 160bhp. In power to weight terms with the Cooper S – it ‘will be up there’.

Gearbox in the US. Reckon this is will be a 5 speed and a manual. Unlikely that Fiat will develop a 6 speed for the US market in a 'standard' A500 but you never know. In the A500c in Europe it only came with a MTA but has just recently being offered with the manual. Interesting enough the MTA is Europe although a bit jerky is more economical than the manual. Understand your Auto impacts the mpg hence the ‘swing’ to manual.

Last Sunday that was a top gear special on BBC 2 (UK station). Unfortunately you cannot view it through BBC Iplayer (but there are always around this ). Subject of a very interesting thread. One of the reviewers – a Richard Hammond – said that ‘he would not change a thing on the car’ referring to the A500c esseesse.

When your Abarths arrive in the ‘Studios’ I reckon that Italy will insist on them been kitted out by Abarth fitting specialists. The Abarth marquee is heavily protected. In Europe you must have 6 Abarths in the Garage to sell them. It will be interesting to see what will happen in the US.

Click to expand...

Yes, the MINI is a hoot (except for torque steer under hard acceleration in 1st/2nd in a turn). It has a Milltech exhaust, CAI, 15% Supercharger reduction pulley, front cross brace, and a few things that I can't remember. Right after we had the main performance changes made (pulley, exhaust), I took it out on the Dragon. If you've never heard of the Tail of the Dragon, it's a road 11 miles long and 318 tight turns and no side roads (Tennessee/North Carolina border). Climbs up a mountain and down the other side & has a speed limit of 30 mph (Hah). Check it out, it has its own web site.

Anyhow, I got radar clocked doing 54 in a 30 by a Cop coming the other way. I kept going and he didin't catch up until I was pulled over at the bottom. Luckily, I used my "go to traffic school and get no points card", and no harm done. I find rather more remote roads to "exercise" on now!

As far as econ, at around $3.78 to $4.00 per (US) gallon of high octane petrol, its economy is just fine.... not being an idiot will get you in the mid to upper 20's and low 30's at steady freeway cruise of 80 mph.

You are correct that the posted speed limits and actual speed limits on the freeways are very, very different. As you saw, 80 and above is the normal pace speed. As it should be since the interstates were designed for constant 80 mph travel in 1950's autos.

As for my upcoming Abarth, I'll be content with a 5-spd but a 6 would be grand. I do have some very twisty roads picked out where the Abarth might give even our MINI fits. We'll see.

As I've said before, semi-auto manual gearboxes are not welcome here. They serve no purpose considering our fuel prices and their operation is clumsy. This doesn't include the twin-clutch autos such as VW has available. They are Okay but I'll take a manual. I don't have to commute in heavy traffic everyday anymore so I'll keep clutch if at all possible. For trips we use our 2003 Lexus LS430 w/145k on the clock. It does low 20 mph on the highway at 85 so that's fine. Sucks on the mountain roads but a real pleasure on a 4 or 6 lane limited access freeway.

To the best of my knowledge, the Abarth will be a Fiat model here. No one has the slightest idea of Carlos Abarth or his exploits (Carol Shelby is another matter) so nothing to be gained setting it apart. Right now, Fiat has only 7o "studios" up and running in the entire usa and combined selling about 5000 cars a month. I just don't see setting the Abarth up as a separate line is just not fiscally doable now. My opinion of course.

With the price of petrol falling, Fiat will be lucky to keep that rate of sales up. Truth here is, if gas prices fall, people buy bigger cars. We have no congestion/tiny roads like Naples, Rome, Cotswalds, etc in 99.9% of the country with which to contend. Small cars here are sold as either a fashion accessory or to meet minimal transportation needs. I am talking here about the vast majority not the enthusiast community. Right now, Fiat is catching flack for the low HP of the 500 and that is hurting sales.

It's going to be an interesting year.

Cheers

Milnoc said:

Saw that episode. I'm still annoyed by the producers' decisions! Arg!

Click to expand...

Was it televised on Canadian TV or did to get around the restrictions on BBC IPLAYER ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b012c3bz/Top_Gear_Series_17_Episode_2/

http://www.tv.com/top-gear/series-17-episode-2/episode/1390646/summary.html?tag=ep_guide;summary

Can't get it directly, "not available in your area", but streetfire.com has it available. Going to watch it tonight, thanks!

I use BitTorrent. Very often, I get to watch the show the same night it has aired in the UK, in 720p no less.

I don't have much of a choice but to watch it this way since it can take weeks if not months for the episode to arrive in Canada. And by the time it's here, all the music has been changed due to rights issues, and the news segment has been removed along with other pieces of the show to make room for the commercials.

An example on how bad this is. For the Canadian broadcast, the Vietnam special from the twelfth series was reduced by a third of its original length, and all of the Vietnam era music had been removed. The significance of the episode had been totally destroyed!

Getting back on the subject, the Abarth still has an excellent chance of succeeding in North America with the street racing crowd (unfortunately). But Fiat definitely needs to expand the "studio" exposure, or possibly do away with the Studio concept entirely since it's possibly alienating potential customers who just want to buy a car, and alienating the dealers who simply want to sell cars. The "Studio" concept appears to be a European idea which is incompatible with North American buying habits except in the more trendy areas of North America where the local people already feel "special", and not necessarily in a good way.

No smilies on that last statement.

geeded said:

Yes, the MINI is a hoot (except for torque steer under hard acceleration in 1st/2nd in a turn). It has a Milltech exhaust, CAI, 15% Supercharger reduction pulley, front cross brace, and a few things that I can't remember. Right after we had the main performance changes made (pulley, exhaust), I took it out on the Dragon. If you've never heard of the Tail of the Dragon, it's a road 11 miles long and 318 tight turns and no side roads (Tennessee/North Carolina border). Climbs up a mountain and down the other side & has a speed limit of 30 mph (Hah). Check it out, it has its own web site.

Anyhow, I got radar clocked doing 54 in a 30 by a Cop coming the other way. I kept going and he didin't catch up until I was pulled over at the bottom. Luckily, I used my "go to traffic school and get no points card", and no harm done. I find rather more remote roads to "exercise" on now!

As far as econ, at around $3.78 to $4.00 per (US) gallon of high octane petrol, its economy is just fine.... not being an idiot will get you in the mid to upper 20's and low 30's at steady freeway cruise of 80 mph.

You are correct that the posted speed limits and actual speed limits on the freeways are very, very different. As you saw, 80 and above is the normal pace speed. As it should be since the interstates were designed for constant 80 mph travel in 1950's autos.

As for my upcoming Abarth, I'll be content with a 5-spd but a 6 would be grand. I do have some very twisty roads picked out where the Abarth might give even our MINI fits. We'll see.

As I've said before, semi-auto manual gearboxes are not welcome here. They serve no purpose considering our fuel prices and their operation is clumsy. This doesn't include the twin-clutch autos such as VW has available. They are Okay but I'll take a manual. I don't have to commute in heavy traffic everyday anymore so I'll keep clutch if at all possible. For trips we use our 2003 Lexus LS430 w/145k on the clock. It does low 20 mph on the highway at 85 so that's fine. Sucks on the mountain roads but a real pleasure on a 4 or 6 lane limited access freeway.

To the best of my knowledge, the Abarth will be a Fiat model here. No one has the slightest idea of Carlos Abarth or his exploits (Carol Shelby is another matter) so nothing to be gained setting it apart. Right now, Fiat has only 7o "studios" up and running in the entire usa and combined selling about 5000 cars a month. I just don't see setting the Abarth up as a separate line is just not fiscally doable now. My opinion of course.

With the price of petrol falling, Fiat will be lucky to keep that rate of sales up. Truth here is, if gas prices fall, people buy bigger cars. We have no congestion/tiny roads like Naples, Rome, Cotswalds, etc in 99.9% of the country with which to contend. Small cars here are sold as either a fashion accessory or to meet minimal transportation needs. I am talking here about the vast majority not the enthusiast community. Right now, Fiat is catching flack for the low HP of the 500 and that is hurting sales.

It's going to be an interesting year.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Just on the MTA gearbox in the Europe models it has no torque converter so there's no loss of power or economy. It can work in 'triptronic' mode and has been very successfull. IMHO better than an automatic.

I checked out the 'tail of the dragon'. It wouldn't suit me unless the it was a 'free road' at 5am in the morning.
http://www.tailofthedragon.com/dragon_THP.html

Check out this for roads in Europe. Spain is used as a good testing ground. Couldn't find one for the Abarth. This particular youtube came about from a discussion on the Top gear thread on the best hot hatchs 'out there'. I reckon it will go 'full circle' back to the Abarth.

I'm not too sure if its possible to hire a A500 in Europe.

Milnoc said:

I use BitTorrent. Very often, I get to watch the show the same night it has aired in the UK, in 720p no less.

I don't have much of a choice but to watch it this way since it can take weeks if not months for the episode to arrive in Canada. And by the time it's here, all the music has been changed due to rights issues, and the news segment has been removed along with other pieces of the show to make room for the commercials.

An example on how bad this is. For the Canadian broadcast, the Vietnam special from the twelfth series was reduced by a third of its original length, and all of the Vietnam era music had been removed. The significance of the episode had been totally destroyed!

Getting back on the subject, the Abarth still has an excellent chance of succeeding in North America with the street racing crowd (unfortunately). But Fiat definitely needs to expand the "studio" exposure, or possibly do away with the Studio concept entirely since it's possibly alienating potential customers who just want to buy a car, and alienating the dealers who simply want to sell cars. The "Studio" concept appears to be a European idea which is incompatible with North American buying habits except in the more trendy areas of North America where the local people already feel "special", and not necessarily in a good way.

No smilies on that last statement.

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Not too sure how geeded feels about that. LOL

geeded said:

Semi-auto gearboxes haven't been sold here since the Beetle back in the early 1970's.

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I'm old enough to remember that little episode. VW made the mistake of calling that gearbox the 'Automatic Stick Shift'. They weren't thinking that the first letter of those words spelled 'ASS' ('ARSE' for UK viewers) and that may have killed it even had it been a perfectly good piece of kit. At any rate, it wasn't carried over to the Rabbit (Golf) when it arrived in the USA.

I just checked my nearest Fiat dealer on Long Island, NY, only 33 miles away. They only show a single Abarth 500 for sale (In Transit). The transmission is a five speed C510.

I think I read somewhere that this transmission is used on Alfa Romeo cars and is beefier than the 5 speed found in the normal 500 cars in order to handle the 160 HP.

Just figured I'd pass that info on.