Prior to removing the fuel tank (before I took the car to the body-shop) I drained it completely AND ran the carb dry, mainly so that there was no fuel left in the system to bugger it up--it was at the body-shop for the thick end of 5 months. When it came to restarting the car, more than a few 'anglo-saxon' words were uttered because I just could NOT pull fuel through. In the end I used a electric tyre air-pump with the nozzle in the filler-neck of the tank 'sealed' with a rag I held in place round the nozzle and with the fuel pipe disconnected at the INPUT side of the fuel pump, gently pressurised the tank to blow fuel through. As soon as fuel came out of the pipe, stopped the pump, and quickly refitted the supply pipe at the fuel pump----cranked the engine over for a bit and it burst into life--phew! Another option (which I hesitate to mention) is that old standby--'Easystart' A good squirt of that may just get the engine running long enough to pull fuel through.
Looking at your picture of the engine cover, Fiat used to fit a small, square heat-proof shield (used to be asbestos)on the inside of the cover to protect it (and the paint) from the heat of the rear exhaust--I would recommend that you fit one (not that difficult to make--most probably cheaper, and definitely quicker, than ordering one from Europe.

Thanks Hobbler for the thoughts.
The heat shield is in the cart for the next order, both the one on the engine lid and the one over the exhaust! Keen to get it all properly kitted up in there. But not if in the end it just won't start.

I feel like fuel must be getting through, as there is a fresh small amount gathering on the little 'shelf' below the carb where it is bolted on, between the spark plugs. I wonder now if this could mean a stuck float - fuel getting to carb but not through it?

Also trying to troubleshoot if it isn't a fuel issue, what might cause the car to fire up perfectly after 2 weeks of not starting, idle really well at varying speeds, but die once driven 50m down the road and not come back to life. I did notice when putting the sleeve on the leads that the central lead to coil had a small crack in the outer insulation, but that's all I can think of :bang::bang::bang:

give it a tug!!!

long rope and mate who understands your brakes will not be as good...
then just give it a pull, ignition on and drop it into gear and let the engine spin over....
if it does not burst into life after a few seconds there is something wrong....
if it does.. in with the clutch pretty sharpish...

beats all this turning it over...
if it ran before and you have a spark and fuel and nothing has changed it will run again...
the old ways are the good ways..

Thanks, I gave it a go but no luck.
I don't think I'm getting a spark.
At least not using my novice test method - unplugged central lead from distributor that comes from coil - held it near exhaust / other metal - rotated belt clockwise as much as possible with ignition on.
No spark

Is that a clue?!
Coil or lead issue?

stop being a wimp!! lol

my brother used to hold the plug lead in his hand... he sure knew if he got a spark or not.

First basic check is....
turn on the ignition....
take dizzy cap off...
look at the points.. if they are closed use a screwdriver and open the points..
if there is a spark then the HT circuit is working... if not there is a problem...

I use one of those little light up things you pug in between the plug lead and the spark plug, easier to see if you have a spark because it lights up....

sounds electrical obviously.. all that you have done is unplugged leads so that is the obvious place to look and check.
you can use the lead from the coil to the dizzy as the one you use to test for a spark...
You will find you can activate the starter lever with a piece of wood or such pushing the motor lever easily while checking for a spark..

if spinning over just to test for a spark, remove both plugs so less strain on the battery. If no spark....
you just have to work through everything logically in order...
and not jump around different things...
check everything....
power from the fuse box to the coil... I had that intermittently.. a burger to find...
look at which terminal on the fuse box supplies to the coil...
check there is power there..
then work your way through...
make sure the leads on the coil are ok and not loose or corroded..
if you have a length of wire you could run a separate lead direct from the battery to the coil..
Remember the loom is probably the original, corroded and loose terminals etc
disturbing anything could cause a problem,..
if you have a meter (easier than a bulb) you can check each wire for continuity...
worth investing a really cheap one..

Bigvtwin996 said:

stop being a wimp!! lol

my brother used to hold the plug lead in his hand... he sure knew if he got a spark or not.

First basic check is....
turn on the ignition....
take dizzy cap off...
look at the points.. if they are closed use a screwdriver and open the points..
if there is a spark then the HT circuit is working... if not there is a problem...

I use one of those little light up things you pug in between the plug lead and the spark plug, easier to see if you have a spark because it lights up....

sounds electrical obviously.. all that you have done is unplugged leads so that is the obvious place to look and check.
you can use the lead from the coil to the dizzy as the one you use to test for a spark...
You will find you can activate the starter lever with a piece of wood or such pushing the motor lever easily while checking for a spark..

if spinning over just to test for a spark, remove both plugs so less strain on the battery. If no spark....
you just have to work through everything logically in order...
and not jump around different things...
check everything....
power from the fuse box to the coil... I had that intermittently.. a burger to find...
look at which terminal on the fuse box supplies to the coil...
check there is power there..
then work your way through...
make sure the leads on the coil are ok and not loose or corroded..
if you have a length of wire you could run a separate lead direct from the battery to the coil..
Remember the loom is probably the original, corroded and loose terminals etc
disturbing anything could cause a problem,..
if you have a meter (easier than a bulb) you can check each wire for continuity...
worth investing a really cheap one..

Click to expand...

I was planning on testing it on my tongue

Thanks once again Peter, these are all great steps! Only problem is, I'm hopeless enough that I only understand every second word.

- Looking at points, and opening with a screwdriver. I am googling the basics of this but not sure where the spark should be when open

- when testing the lead from coil to dizzy, do I need to pull the starter or is it ok to just turn the belt as I tried before

The fuse box is a good thought. I checked the instruction manual and there was no indication that the fuse supplied the ignition system so I discarded that!

I had an issue with the horn not working before, and have got all new fuses and some contact cleaner.
That will be my next step!

Tongue test - yep that gives a positive result..
the spark will be across the points gap when you open it up.. you will see...
the engine needs to be spun over by the starter to generate enough electricity to create the spark at the coil/plugs
the lead to the coil from the fuse box.... to the coil.. look at the colours it does not have a fuse, it is on the power side of the fuse box so there is no chance of a fuse blowing that will stop the engine. If you removed all the fuses the engine should still run - old car =very simple electrics.. (this knowledge will come in time) look at the colours of the leads on the coil and one will head towards the front of the car...look for a corresponding lead at the fuse box...

Ah dear.
Replaced all fuses and doused with contact cleaner. My high beam lights work on both sides now at least! But no change otherwise. Line to coil looks well fitted and clean
Really think I need a multimeter or something to test all these things.

No spark though on lead from coil. Got wife to pull the starter and nowt.

Didn't manage to try the points, but does the above suggest one of:
- coil dead
- no power to coil (line from fuse box)
- faulty lead from coil

a few useful tools I have always had to hand for elec stuff....
most can be brought cheaply on line...
a cheap multi meter with an audio setting for continuity (a buzzer or such )
allows checking for circuits and lamps and fuses etc all are ok.
a screwdriver with a lamp built in and a lead and crocodile clip you can attach the clip to the end of a lead and poke around with the screwdriver tip and if the lead has power obviously the lamp lights up.
Spark tester, plugs between lead and plug, lights up when you have a spark turning the engine over.
There are a few others I have but these can be brought really cheaply.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DT-830B-LCD-Digital-Multimeter-AC-DC-750-1000V-Amp-Volt-Ohm-Tester-Meter-Buzzer-/232438904793?var=&hash=item361e7037d9:m:mkNmJxjy1AMEJePMx4YTEeg

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Auto-Emgine-Ignition-Spark-Plug-Coil-Tester-In-Line-Lead-Tool-For-Car-Van-/222159522423?epid=1189350461&hash=item33b9bd4a77:g:8~EAAOSwy5ZXCLCb

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6V-12V-24V-DC-Tester-Light-Circuit-Screwdriver-Auto-Electrics-Testing-Tool-/262577752009?epid=796416630&hash=item3d22da87c9:g:Vc0AAOSwMtxXsKGX

I'm sure everyone has their "must have tools"....
I have a few more expensive ones now but these cheap ones suffice to get started..

Next purchases! Very affordable is true, and seemingly very time saving, thanks for the links.

Pulled a lightbulb out of my little one's science kit and definitely getting power to the coil.
Also changed the little red wire from coil to distributor and no change there.
Tried using another lead off the coil but couldn't pick up a spark, though I was only able to turn the belt as I didn't have an assistant to pull the starter - will do it properly tomorrow.

My feeling is it's probably the coil, though I'm not sure why it would have died while driving but been fine at idle...
While I was working on some bits and pieces on the interior, I had the ignition on for a while. Probably an hour, as I was listening to the radio.
Reading some other threads, this seems like a big nono for the coil.
Though it did start up fine after this. But then on accelerating, sudden death - perhaps an increase in current to coil with acceleration after some damage with lengthy ignition on -> death?


F123C wrote up a fantastic breakdown of working through the issues but it seems to be gone now!? Thankfully it's still in my email subscriptions, and many thanks for the details as I really am at a novice level.

I looked at the local auto parts store for different coils but could only see ones suited for electronic ignitions, shame as would've been good to test out a new one quickly...


Having said all of that, and searched the forum, I can't for the life of me work out what sort of coil I would need to try, if mine is dead.
Oil filled, male, female, 12v, resistors, ballast... ??

A Lucas dlb105 or similar. Look on ebay or auto store. You want 3 ohms resistance not 1.5 ohms

It is very difficult to diagnose a fault like this from a distance, all we can do is make sensible suggestions. So (and this is meant as a serious suggestion) why not get the car to a competent auto-electrician? This will achieve 2 things---(1) it will get the car off the side of the road and therefore the council will stop winging and, (2) they will have all the correct testing equipment and therefore won't be putting parts on "just because it might be###". Like me, you (by your own admission) are not too hot with car electrics. If your auto-electricians are anything like the old lads I used, they will not take the **** out of you, they will be delighted to work on a "nice, simple proper car" as mine were--I needed the electrics on my 500 to be 'cleansed' of the spurious wiring the previous owner had put in for the radio and the electric windows (yes, really!) They removed enough wiring to fill a 1ft cube box, and teased me that they had added 2 mph to the top speed of the car, which they probably had!
There is always the possibility that the fault is something as simple as a condenser--the 500 is notorious for the rate they can go through these. The modern condenser are made very cheaply--when I had a 'points' ignition on my car I used the "Swiftune competition condenser"--not cheap, but I never had a moments trouble with it (they are made for classic racing cars--mini through to GT40s that have, due to the rules, to retain the original style of ignition). If you do still have 'points' ignition on your engine may I recommend that you fit an electronic ignition---even a simple "Hall effect" type will make a difference as it does away with points and the condenser. AccuSpark and Pertronix are 2 good makes that make a system specific for the 500/126 engine. Whatever the problem turns out to be, please let us know--we all learn that way.

I'm definitely close to that point, and paying a mobile autosparky to come out.

The resistance comes from feeling like these cars are so beautifully and simply designed that if I could only get the parts I needed it could be simple, and wanting to learn at least the basics so as to be as self sufficient as possible and one day give back to another newbie on the forum
But even the lucas coil isn't available here, and finding a similar one at the regular autoparts stores seems tricky.

The Accuspark crossed my mind for sure, but there seem to be mixed reviews. Given my plan is for this to be a 3-5day/week driver approx 10 miles each way, maybe I should invest in reliability (where possible!).

You don't need electronic ignition of any kind. You're right to appreciate and respect the simplicity of contact breakers. There are many logical tests that you can't do with electronic ignition.
Do the points have an approximately 0.5mm gap when the distributor is pushing the "plastic" heel on the highest part of the cam? If not, adjust by slackening the little screw that holds down the static part of them and you will see how they adjust.. Then turn the engine so that the points are closed and briefly pull a scrap of fine sandpaper between them. You might even then wipe them with alcohol or petrol depending on your taste The fun bit is to test that there is an effective spark from the coil. The distributor cap is off, the short HT lead from the coil is pulled out of the distributor cap, the points are at the closed position, the ignition is on, the removed end of that HT lead is held anything from about half a cm from the engine block or other grounded part. Then, using a small screwdriver, carefully flick the points open. There will be a small, maybe yellowish spark at the points and a fine blue spark from the HT to the engine, all accompanied by a click.
Of course, there may not be, but that tells us something.

fiat500 said:

You don't need electronic ignition of any kind. You're right to appreciate and respect the simplicity of contact breakers.

Click to expand...

I love the simplicity of old cars... no need for a computer to be plugged in...
but I am still on the fence regarding electronic ignition...
as we have commented before Peter and myself both have 123 distributors sitting on the shelf....but when points work they work well... I just don't like maintenance these days due to lack of time....
as Tom says it is hard to diagnose problems from a distance, but it is good that you are at least trying, if you get an auto electrician to look at it, don't walk off, see if they will explain their logic and what they are doing..

Too many people these days just don't do things themselves, and when they are ripped off they complain.....

Bigvtwin996 said:

I love the simplicity of old cars... no need for a computer to be plugged in...
but I am still on the fence regarding electronic ignition...
as we have commented before Peter and myself both have 123 distributors sitting on the shelf....but when points work they work well... I just don't like maintenance these days due to lack of time....
as Tom says it is hard to diagnose problems from a distance, but it is good that you are at least trying, if you get an auto electrician to look at it, don't walk off, see if they will explain their logic and what they are doing..

Too many people these days just don't do things themselves, and when they are ripped off they complain.....

Click to expand...

I totally agree with everything that you say there....apart from the Electronic Ignition. I'm not Luddite....I fully endorse electonic charging control; but I have now done enough miles in enough weather conditions and temperatures to know that in my well-maintained car with an unworn, contact-breaking distributor, it is all the other factors which have the biggest bearing on starting and running efficiency.
The other weakness of EI is that it gives you a false positive; either, a problem is thought definitely not to be down to the distributor or you have this vague and wooly feeling "could it possibly be that?".
Of course, it is also impossible for you to definitively test for a faulty electronic module by the roadside, whereas if you suspect the conventional distributor, or wish to eliminate it, you can change the points, clean them, adjust them etc.
The other matter that concerns me is that with the 123 ignition you are not able to make the infinite, fine adjustments that are possible conventionally.

I have a Bosch coil on my 500----Bosch have 2 places in the Sydney area----Kings Park and Baulkham Hills (both NSW, and according to my little map in the Sydney area--but it is only a little map)--try them for a coil if a Lucas one isn't available. They would be able to advise you as to which coil to fit.

Thanks for the education and input, I am learning! :worship:


You are all right in that it was hard to diagnose from a distance, and I'm still not 100% sure what the cure was.
Of all places, it turned out a fellow 500 owner lived just down the street, and I got in touch with him overnight. He was on his way out this morning and stopped by. Within 5 minutes he'd shocked himself on my working ignition system

His thoughts were - points were corroded and will just need some emery paper on them as per fiat500 above.

The other query was something very simple that he spotted - the oil dipstick. It was leaning on the condenser and he thought this might have been grounding the system.


He moved that and tickled the points a bit and then she started. Exciting times, and safely tucked off the street until rego / MOT tomorrow. Wiper blades changed, lights all working, mirrors and horn all good. Brakes are rubbing a bit, but that will be tackled soon, keeping an eye on turbo500 and his brake issues!


Question - the lovely neighbouring 500 owner gave me a new condenser and contact set. If it is all now working, is it worth fitting these, or does the 'not broke don't fix' theory apply?

........not broke....don't (for now)
Don't forget to point your 500 owning neighbour towards this Forum. ....sounds a potentially very useful and positive contributor. How can there be many of these cars down there?

BambinoClassic said:

<SNIP>

Question - the lovely neighbouring 500 owner gave me a new condenser and contact set. If it is all now working, is it worth fitting these, or does the 'not broke don't fix' theory apply?

Click to expand...

I'd fit them. If you don't fit them now, keep them and a screwdriver in the car so you change them at the road side. I'd keep the old parts in car if I did change them.

Robert G8RPI.