Hi everyone,
I've just got myself a '72 500 (But still haven't collected it yet!)
Last owner had the car for 25 years. I may be making myself look like a complete plonker here but can you get a rhd 500L with a round speedo??? It has carpets, plain door cards with no pockets. 'Ribbed' stitched seats if that's the correct term.
I don't think it's had anything major done to it in 25 years of ownership.
I realise that lots of these cars have been changed, modified, altered being the proverbial Meccano set. If anyone could chip in and point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated!
Thanks,
M

M500 said:

can you get a rhd 500L with a round speedo?

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No...you've got an "F" I think. That's a nice find. The speedo, steering-wheel, door handles and cards are correct.
It's likely the seats, carpet and centre tray around the gear-lever are later fitments from an "L"
It sounds like a good car.
Please keep posting more news and images of your car.

As Peter said it's a F.

In 1972 there was a bit of a crossover period when the L was first sold, so an F with a round speedo was still available. I assume it has the winged badge?

In the picture the ignition switch in the centre of the dashboard looks like a toggle switch, where's the ignition switch? On the column?

Oh and the door handle is at the wrong angle but that's part of the whole new world of classic 500's on this forum.

Tony

Re: Naive newbie question

That was quick guys, thank you!

I've paid for the car and insured it but unfortunately it's still 250 miles from me..... hopefully collecting next week.
I've been looking for one for ages and after reading lots, learning (a little) and scouring the net finally came across this little beauty that was living only a stones throw from a really good friend of mine!
Anyhow, 'L' badge on the rear, no 'winged' badge on the front and no rear or front nudge bars.

From your points of view is it important to keep / make these cars as 'original' as possible? Or normal to add nudge bars, mirrors to add your own personality?? It seems like it has been played with anyhow but, as I say probably 25 years ago. Since then I understand it has been in (heated) storage and only used for the odd run in the summer months.

Oh, it currently has plastic modern number plates which I'd like to swap to pressed aluminium ones.... am I boring you guys yet? These questions are probably typical of an enthusiastic first time owner but I did try to find the answers first... honest!!
?

I agree with Peter and Tony--it is a 500f with 'L' (Lusso) parts. All the 500s, with the exception of the 'L' had round speedos---the 'L' had a unique-to-it square instrument cluster, complete with fuel GAUGE. I have a 'L' and the door-lock release pulls are at the bottom-front corner of the doors and are pulled OUT, not over. Also, just to baffle people, as Tony pointed out--the 'F' and the 'L' were both available at the same time---a case of 'yer pays yer money and makes yer choice' I am willing to be corrected on this, but I think that your car is old enough to be allowed to fit 'black 'n silver' number plates. Where about do you live ?--always nice to know where Forum members are.

I just looked that up Tom regarding the black and white or silver number plates. I always thought it was any car manufactured before 1st Jan 1973 but apparently it changed in 2014 when they introduced a rolling 40 year timeframe, so long as your vehicle is registered as a historic vehicle i.e. Tax exempt.

So I assume that means any car from 1977 can now display the older style plate if it's registered correctly.

Vitesse said:

So I assume that means any car from 1977 can now display the older style plate if it's registered correctly.

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.


...doesn't mean you should

To me it doesn't look right....but then again, look at what I do think looks right!:bang:

I think this was discussed on "the other" Forum. Cars were carrying reflective plates in the mid '60's. Mine has the originals from 1969...very yellow and white.

Oh I agree I think they yellow and white were introduced in 1968? So the vast majority of cars at that time from new were fitted with those plates. I remember my grandads Austin 1300 had them and that was an H reg 1970?

It's odd but our cars from the outside look identical (apart from the sunroof) but mine being a 1966 F wouldn't look right with yellow and white plates???

I remember the discussion on the other forum and there was one particular person who was really obsessed with whether the correct plates were pressed or raised digits. I am pretty sure mine are the original plates fitted to the car in 1966, they have just been anti-patinated.

When did the round Speedo replaced by the square one. Is it right to have a 1965-66 F with square Speedo And ignition key at the column?

Thomas

the hobbler said:

I am willing to be corrected on this, but I think that your car is old enough to be allowed to fit 'black 'n silver' number plates. Where about do you live ?--always nice to know where Forum members are.

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I understand that the rules have changed about the plates, I just thought that the car would look better with black and silver and I presumed that modern plates had been added. But now I know that it probably had reflective plates from the start...... learning all the time!!

Peter, yes I'll post some more pics of the car when I get it back to my home in the wilds of Norfolk!

What a nice bunch of people here, thank you so much. When I've had chance to check things out properly ie chassis number & docs etc I'd like to pick your brains and find out what the correct rear badge should be etc....

Any idea how many of these cars are left in the UK now? That surprises me when so many were originally produced. RHD ones seem quite scarce, seems like I have done well to find this one.

Cheers

Welcome to the group. Looks like a lovely car and a very good find!

Don't worry about asking simple or even what appear to be stupid questions. I'm three years in to ownership and I'm still asking them, and I'm sure I will be for many years to come! The more knowledgeable guys on this forum are super helpful, and usually very quick to respond.

One piece of advice I'd give, as a relative novice, is to try and find a good old fashioned local garage/mechanic that can help you with the odd job that you can't do yourself, especially things that you need specialist equipment or a ramp to execute properly or safely. As simple as these cars are (compared to modern cars) they still have their nuances and it's easy for a grease monkey to be too heavy handed with a bolt or to do something fundamentally wrong.

When I took delivery of my car the engine had been overhauled and rebuilt, but the cylinder head stud bolts stripped within 2 miles of my first drive as they'd been overtightened! Day one I was faced with the hassle of getting it recovered and sent to a 500 specialist for the cylinder head to be heli-coiled (re-threaded), and the garage it was sent to also picked up about half a dozen other simple errors that could have had some pretty serious consequences.

A lot of the guys on the forum do everything themselves (hats off). I have the Haynes manual (a must) and tinker quite adequately, I turn a spanner here and there and manage to do a good amount of basic stuff myself with the help of this forum. For me that's half the fun of ownership, troubleshooting the occasional problem and learning how these beauties tick! But some of the more serious stuff (anything to do with brakes and electrics in particular) I farm out.

I've struggled to find a suitable local garage that I really trust here in the Midlands, so I probably rely on Middle Barton Garage (near Oxford) probably a little more than I actually need to, which can be a bit of a mission as they're 60 or so miles away.

http://middlebartongarage.com

Try and tap in to a local owners club member and see what options are local to you. There are two UK owners clubs as far as I can tell, The Fiat 500 Club and the Fiat 500 Enthusiasts Club. I'm a member of both and they're really lovely people. A lot of the events seem to be South East centric, but I do try and get to one or two events a year.

gordinir8 said:

When did the round Speedo replaced by the square one. Is it right to have a 1965-66 F with square Speedo And ignition key at the column?



Thomas

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No because square speedo and column ignition are from the L which didn't start until 1968 I think

The 'square' instrument cluster was unique to the 500L (1968-1972). They reverted back to the 'round' speedo on the 'R'. The 500F and the 500L were both available between '68 and '72 when the 500L was superseded by the 500R--- with the 500F continuing into 1973. To the best of my knowledge, the stamped-out shape of the dash-board on the 500F and R does not allow the fitment of the 'L' instrument cluster, and the cut-out on the dash of a 'L' definitely precludes fitment of the 'round ' speedo.

Ok now you guys made things complicated.
My car serial is 1965-1966 according to two different serial number lists I found through here. The dash board cut out is for square cluster and looks factory and not later mod. Maybe chassis numbers are not real or they come from another car. Any other way that I can tell for sure what type it is?

Thomas

Really good explanation of the differences between an L and an F.

http://digilander.libero.it/nuvell/particL.html At the bottom right of the page you can jump to other pages describing the F, etc.

Also:
http://nuova500.free.fr/lienfr.html

Most browsers will translate these pages.

John

gordinir8 said:

Ok now you guys made things complicated.
My car serial is 1965-1966 according to two different serial number lists I found through here. The dash board cut out is for square cluster and looks factory and not later mod. Maybe chassis numbers are not real or they come from another car. Any other way that I can tell for sure what type it is?

Thomas

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Thomas, if your car is 1965-66 then it was not made as an "L." As Tom pointed out the L did not come out until 1968.
I have seen L's made into F's. Other than the instrument cluster, it is not hard to put the exterior and interior L parts on an F.
Attached is an accurate chassis number to year guide found here: http://nuova500.free.fr/pagine/fiche500f.html
John

It looks like I have the very rare 500F/L prototype then!

..... so I can add a checkered sunroof and nudge bars without spoiling the cars originality!
So would your advice be to enjoy the fun element of the car and do what the hell I like with it? I only ask is because I have experience with an aircooled Porsche 911 and it is so important to keep their originality (that I don't appear to have with this little cute little Fiat!)
My other half is in love with it already, and she hasn't even seen it, so I'm beginning to think I'm not going to get a look in.

Thanks for all the info and links.

M500 said:

So would your advice be to enjoy the fun element of the car and do what the hell I like with it? I only ask is because I have experience with an aircooled Porsche 911 and it is so important to keep their originality (that I don't appear to have with this little cute little Fiat!)

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I think every owner has stamped a piece of their personality on their car in some way shape or form, and to some degree.

I've seen a bright green "500" with a rocket of a Hayabusa engine in the back (including the back seats by the way), very authentic refurbished cars, and everything in between. It's all part of the rich 500 tapestry!

Re: Naive newbie quest

Pete145 said:

I think every owner has stamped a piece of their personality on their car in some way shape or form, and to some degree.

I've seen a bright green "500" with a rocket of a Hayabusa engine in the back (including the back seats by the way), very authentic refurbished cars, and everything in between. It's all part of the rich 500 tapestry!

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Hi Pete,
Thanks for your welcome post, informative too. Haynes manual should arrive Monday!

jjacob said:

Thomas, if your car is 1965-66 then it was not made as an "L." As Tom pointed out the L did not come out until 1968.
I have seen L's made into F's. Other than the instrument cluster, it is not hard to put the exterior and interior L parts on an F.
Attached is an accurate chassis number to year guide found here: http://nuova500.free.fr/pagine/fiche500f.html
John

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My s/n is 110F104XXXX as per table is an L but how can explain the square cluster which looks factory installation and not a modification? All holes on the dash are perfectly cut so i doubt that it is a modification. If i have a special extremely rare model i am asking 80.000 euros for anyone interested:yuck: