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Old 19-11-2016   #1
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Fiat 500D Engine 1962

Well the time has come for me to start my next project. I bought it just after buying my other Fiat 500 called Franko.
I have been busy completing various tasks around the house before I was allowed back in the garage. This isn't going to be completed as fast as Franko but it is most definitely going to be as much as a challenge.
My aim is to return it to its original factory condition or as close as I can get it. This poor little D was imported from Italy and has clearly been neglected.
So its going to be fun getting this one right.
Ive decided to split the restoration up into different sections as it will be easier to record and will be easier as reference for other 500 owners.
So lets start with the engine. I always knew there was going to be something wrong with the engine when I saw the photos of it in Italy before it came back to the UK. The engine had been removed and was inside the car.
A good friend on this site called Peter identified that it was indeed a 500D engine as opposed to the usual change over to an F/L or 650 engine. The person who sold it to me had the engine put back in for selling purposes, but on first physical inspection I could see the engine was seized.
It has sat in this state for over a 1&/2 years whilst I was rebuilding Franko. I was so tempted to pull it out and find out what was wrong!
So today I removed the 2 bolts holding the engine to the gearbox, removed the rear panel and took the engine out.
I decided to dismantle the engine. All the nuts and bolts have all come apart so easy. Far better than any Polish 126 engine that I have dealt with so far.
Straight away there are quite a few noticeable differences from the L or 650 engine.
1. Tappet cover has a smaller length neck.
2. The engine breather goes down the back of the engine rather than into the air filter.
3. The air filter housing is a smaller diameter. My filter cover was missing but I managed to source one a while ago on ebay.
4. The cylinder head does not have the ring machined on the face or the hollow bolts.
5. The cable brackets are different on the cowling.
6. The clutch and flywheel appear to be different.
7. The crankshaft pulley is different. It is more detailed and is the complete reversal to the later type.
8. The valve rods are totally different shape, actually a hollow tube.

I tried filling the cylinders with oil a few weeks ago to see if it would help free the engine up. But there was no moving it today. So off with the head! I had to cut the 5 tubes as they were the steel type and were preventing the head coming off.
The head appears to be ok, but will be fully dismantled and checked. I may end up changing it for a later type unless I get new valves & seats fitted to use unleaded with.
But what was the problem with the engine? I cleaned the oil out of the cylinders to find something unusual inside. It was full of what looked like small bright red coffee beans in one cylinder and a load of gungy stuff in the other. That's not going to help.
Well that's as far as I got today. So hopefully next time I will get the engine fully stripped ready to clean and check.
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Old 19-11-2016   #2
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

heres the other photos.
My new camera saves them with way too much memory and I cant seem to load them.
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Old 19-11-2016   #3
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

Cool! I know the Italians like their coffee buts thats ridiculous
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Old 19-11-2016   #4
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

That looks like the seed that farmers use for sowing wheat it is normally red.

Looks like you are going to busy Sean!!!

I think the base gaskets are shot.
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Old 19-11-2016   #5
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

Great to see more of your well-recorded action Sean.
Your camera can easily be set to record smaller images with relatively little compromise on quality for web purposes. Alternatively just setup a Flickr account for free, save all the imges there so you have the full record backed-up in one place and share them to your posts using the BB code on the site (very easy copy and paste of a url.).
That engine has had a hard life externally but obviously you'll be doing it up completely.
I think the seeds/nuts/ beans might be a rodent cache stored in there. I found several mouse nests in my Mitchio. I even had a small fire with one of them.
Very interesting stuff.
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Old 20-11-2016   #6
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

I'm not sure if this is a 1962 engine. The crancshaft-pully seems to me like a earlier N-type that was produced up to 1960.
Would you show us a pic of the engine number?
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Old 20-11-2016   #7
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

Quote Originally Posted by Vitesse View Post
That looks like the seed that farmers use for sowing wheat it is normally red.



Looks like you are going to busy Sean!!!



I think the base gaskets are shot.

I think the gaskets are the least of my worries!
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Old 20-11-2016   #8
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

Quote Originally Posted by fiat500 View Post
Great to see more of your well-recorded action Sean.
Your camera can easily be set to record smaller images with relatively little compromise on quality for web purposes. Alternatively just setup a Flickr account for free, save all the imges there so you have the full record backed-up in one place and share them to your posts using the BB code on the site (very easy copy and paste of a url.).
That engine has had a hard life externally but obviously you'll be doing it up completely.
I think the seeds/nuts/ beans might be a rodent cache stored in there. I found several mouse nests in my Mitchio. I even had a small fire with one of them.
Very interesting stuff.

I think you may be right. He must have been storing them in the exhaust elbow and they have dropped through past an open valve. Otherwise he was a very small rodent!
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Old 20-11-2016   #9
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

Quote Originally Posted by Alfons1972 View Post
I'm not sure if this is a 1962 engine. The crancshaft-pully seems to me like a earlier N-type that was produced up to 1960.
Would you show us a pic of the engine number?
I was very interested to read this posting from Alfons1972, so I just went to my garage to check the pulley on my '62 D which, after taking a difficult photo, shows that mine is of the same design as Sean's. My engine is number 252506, I would be interested to know how close this is to yours? I've also been told of the pulley fitted to the N but I don't have a picture to compare.

Sean mentions that the flywheel and clutch appear of a different design: I'm unsure about the flywheel but the clutch is different in that the clutch fitted to the later cars are of the diaphragm spring design whereas the D is of the toggle spring type. The gearbox imput shaft, and so the clutch plate, also has fewer splines.

Sean, I know you have the parts book but I have a good copy of the workshop manual for the D if you want any details copied. Might be useful to you when you get to rebuild stage.
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Old 20-11-2016   #10
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

N->D transition...

from what I have heard and seen looking at many N's and Early D's
Many changes in production can be seen in the life of the fiat 500..
The D being an improvement to the N means there was a cross over..
The D features a dash ashtray.. the N does not... but there are a few D's that do not have an Ashtray... so it is fair to assume that the first D's may have been based on left over N shells, and similarly early engines may have been fitted with N pulleys.
I cannot see anyone wanting to retrofit one as they are significantly weaker and prone to breaking...

clutch should be as Ian describes, but they are not as good...
so ... I know that I have a later cover in my N as it can't be seen
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Last edited by Bigvtwin996; 20-11-2016 at 14:59.
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Old 20-11-2016   #11
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

The engine is now apart!
Engine numbers:
Engine casing: Fiat 110D000 *427120*
Cylinder head:110D000 4066615 S62 5
Chassis plate:110D383998 Motore Engine 110D000
so engine numbers match the chassis plate and the cylinder head has 62 on it - presumably the year.
I have attached a photo of a 500N engine which shows the different air filter housing. From all the photos I have seen this is the clear difference from a N and D engine. The F/L/R/126 engine has the wider filter housing with the plastic cover.
So I am of the opinion this is the correct engine for the vehicle.


Back to the engine:
It's amazing how the engines differ from one another when dismantling.
This engine just came apart so easily. If you read my thread about Frankos 126 engine, I had a nightmare removing the 2 cross head screws holding the main bearing in the case. This time around they came undone with just a screwdriver.
Peter, I know you mentioned a while ago that your engine didn't have the large O ring on the main bearing. This engine doesn't either. The later engines actually have a recess for them. So presumably this was a later modification as was the machined ring in the head and the hollow bolts to let exhaust gases escape if the head gasket went.
I was a little surprised when I removed the sump cover to find the oil pick up pipe was broken off its mount and damaged by the looks of it.
The crankshaft wasn't seized, however it would appear that the front bearing has damage and this is evident on the front journal. So crankshaft regrind is in order!
Once the cylinders were removed I managed to extract one of the pistons. The rings were stuck solid but the piston looks ok and the gudgen pin is free. As much as I tried the other piston wont move. So I have a couple of options:
1. Take them to an engine machine shop and see if it comes out once its been in a heated cleaning tank. Then see if the pistons/cylinders can be reused.
2. New pistons & cylinder barrels
3. Take the ones out of Frankos original 500L engine as I know they were at least running. Can anyone confirm if these are the same a D pistons/cylinders?
I could also use the crankshaft out of the L engine if it is the same.


So next step is to get it all cleaned up then reassess the situation.
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Old 20-11-2016   #12
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

Quote Originally Posted by IanEmery View Post
I was very interested to read this posting from Alfons1972, so I just went to my garage to check the pulley on my '62 D which, after taking a difficult photo, shows that mine is of the same design as Sean's. My engine is number 252506, I would be interested to know how close this is to yours? I've also been told of the pulley fitted to the N but I don't have a picture to compare.

Sean mentions that the flywheel and clutch appear of a different design: I'm unsure about the flywheel but the clutch is different in that the clutch fitted to the later cars are of the diaphragm spring design whereas the D is of the toggle spring type. The gearbox imput shaft, and so the clutch plate, also has fewer splines.

Sean, I know you have the parts book but I have a good copy of the workshop manual for the D if you want any details copied. Might be useful to you when you get to rebuild stage.
Ian, when I get a minute I will remove my L clutch plate and take a photo of the flywheels and differences.
From what I can see the D has a lighter flywheel and is thinner.
The L looks to be a different profile and heavier than the D but looks lighter than the 126.
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Old 20-11-2016   #13
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

Quote Originally Posted by Bigvtwin996 View Post
N->D transition...

from what I have heard and seen looking at many N's and Early D's
Many changes in production can be seen in the life of the fiat 500..
The D being an improvement to the N means there was a cross over..
The D features a dash ashtray.. the N does not... but there are a few D's that do not have an Ashtray... so it is fair to assume that the first D's may have been based on left over N shells, and similarly early engines may have been fitted with N pulleys.
I cannot see anyone wanting to retrofit one as they are significantly weaker and prone to breaking...

clutch should be as Ian describes, but they are not as good...
so ... I know that I have a later cover in my N as it can't be seen
I had a job removing the front pulley from the cast section. I ended up warming it up with a gas torch and gently tapping it but I was concerned about braking it or damaging it as the pulley is made of a lighter alloy which could well be past its use by date. but it came off and looks ok to reuse.
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Old 20-11-2016   #14
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

Quote Originally Posted by IanEmery View Post
I was very interested to read this posting from Alfons1972, so I just went to my garage to check the pulley on my '62 D which, after taking a difficult photo, shows that mine is of the same design as Sean's. My engine is number 252506, I would be interested to know how close this is to yours? I've also been told of the pulley fitted to the N but I don't have a picture to compare.
this post made me think. And made me go to my garage to look at my early D-type-engine. #251878 it is.
It has the same pully. Look at the clutch. That is the type that is described here...


@Franko500: your pistons seem to be early tuning pistons to rise the compression ratio...
Did you check the diameter of those pistons? are they for 540ccm or even more??
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Last edited by Alfons1972; 20-11-2016 at 15:40.
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Old 20-11-2016   #15
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Re: Fiat 500D Engine 1962

Yes that's the clutch assembly mine should have!
I see you also have a collection of engines
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