That's a good explanation about the bearings. So it needn't bother me that I got the cheapos.
I've been coating everything with the SAE 40 I have left over from my old side-valve; quite thick and sticky but I did plan to do that with the oil pump or to pour oil down the passage where there's an internal hex-screw in the oil-pump casing.
When I built the 500 I was doing it in winter under Sheila's nose in the lovely warm kitchen/dining-room. So on balance I decided it was unsafe to introduce any lubricant other than WD40.
Before I started the engine, having filled the sump, it got loads of revs by hand, then on the starter without the plugs and no petrol and then with all the usual huccups before it actually fired I am sure it was well-oiled.
This engine is only very lightly worn and it shows because, without being stiff or crunchy in any way, with new mains and conrod bearings and new piston-rings, but the camshaft not connected, it already has a lot of internal inertia. The cam is new as are the followers, so this thing is going to need careful running-in.

I've just hit the first problem. I partially stripped the distributor in preparation for checking the advance mechanism, but it was quickly obvious there was a lot wrong. The cam was seized on its post and one of the weights was swinging loose. With the top piece unable to slide off as it should, I had to remove the pinion gear and completely strip the thing.

The spring post on one of the balance weights and one of the posts on the cam assembly are both broken off. My guess is that the very erratic running this will have caused would be the reason why the engine was abandoned in the first place. It does show that lack of lubrication can lead to big problems with a distributor.
MAL_1761 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr
I have a spare 500 distributor which would probably fit and work, I could get a used one and rebuild that or use it for spares, or go the full hog and just 123 it. The last option is the one I veer towards as this engine will end up in my second restoration which it will clearly not be a priority to keep original; I want it to be a tough and practical world circumnavigator.

I didn't think a 500 one would fit. Different lengths I believe

Maybe some of us Australians should meet you half way some day...

1500500 said:

Maybe some of us Australians should meet you half way some day...

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....OK....semi-circumnavigator then.

Paolo66 said:

I didn't think a 500 one would fit. Different lengths I believe

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Doh...it looks like you're right. Suppliers offer the 126 version to fit the 500 but with a spacer. So the 500 has a longer driveshaft which must be that extra piecefor quickremoval.
There are recon ones at about £75.

My 500 has always had a one piece distributor and I always thought that came from a 126 and it doesn't have a spacer but I might be wrong? I can't remember but I think the 123 has a spacer, oh yes it does by the look of the picture below.

https://www.fiat500vdlaan.nl/en/webshop.php?CategoryID=33
This is the spacer which you fit under the mounting plinth on 123. It may be that you need to fit one Tony Vitesse.
I compared the two types of distributor today and the 500 one definitely doesn't fit the 650. The physical reason is that it would need a slice of just under a centimetre of metal taking off its plinth so that the pinion teeth can fully engage with those on the camshaft. It does mesh but only about a third of the pinion teeth surfaces make contact with those on the cam. So it follows that fitting a 650 distributor on a 500 block without the spacer will result in the teeth on the distributor bearing too far into the cam, again with reduced meshing area.
I have been cleaning up and grinding the valves. They are basically in good order but one of the inlets is sitting a bit deeper than the other. One of the exhausts seems just rght but the other is proving tricky to get a good, even contact surface through grinding.
A lot more work needed here.
MAL_1778 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr

Vitesse, Tony,I just noticed on your image of the 123 distributor, on your 500 engine, that the crankcase appears to have a raised nub over which presumable a matching notch on the clamping bracket presumably fits. I don't think that my 500 block has this feature and indeed, why would it need it as the clamping arrangement is quite different. So perhaps the reason you don't need a spacer and always had a 650 distributor is because it is a hybrid engine of some kind or possibly even a 600 or 650. What's the engine type on the block.

fiat500 said:

Vitesse, Tony,I just noticed on your image of the 123 distributor, on your 500 engine, that the crankcase appears to have a raised nub over which presumable a matching notch on the clamping bracket presumably fits. I don't think that my 500 block has this feature and indeed, why would it need it as the clamping arrangement is quite different. So perhaps the reason you don't need a spacer and always had a 650 distributor is because it is a hybrid engine of some kind or possibly even a 600 or 650. What's the engine type on the block.

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Ooh now you have got me thinking Peter. I can't see which bit you think is raised? Do you mean the end of the bracket directly in line with the dipstick? On the 123 the base of the distributor body is the silver bit, then there is a darker metal spacer then the clamp.

It's not the original engine, that died a death about 20 years ago and I had a recon unit from Italy. I still have the original guarantee card somewhere, it's probably only got about 5000 miles on it. Remember it was laid up for 17 years.

It was supplied by Autorossa, I would be surprised if 20 years ago a 650cc engine upgrade was a common upgrade, as I would have thought 126's were still knocking about and not being scrapped. It's definitely a 110F number. I suppose it could be off an R? As apparently that has a one piece distributor?

Here is another picture does it look any different to yours?

False alarm...sorry. I went out to the garage a checked both engine blocks. there is a tiny nib in the casting on my 500. I think your scrupulous finish just highlights that a bit and makes it look bigger. The same area on the 650 is definitely different with a marked flat for that clamp. Also the clamp on the standard 126 distributor has no slot as I am imagining your 123 has.
But I would do some research and find out if you should have spacer; I believe it would have come in the kit if you asked for it to fit a 500.
By the way. where did you buy yours from?

I bought it from Ricambi in Holland. At the time they were the cheapest I think I paid about €180 but it looks like VDL is about the same now. It definitely needs the spacer for the 123 on a 500.

It does beg to ask the question whether when it ran with the conventional setup whether the distributor was meshing correctly on the pinion? I might whip it out tomorrow and compare the length of the two, sounds a bit rude!!!!! ooh err.

Well I didn't take the 123 out of the car coz I didn't want to disrupt the timing but I had a look at the one piece distributor and I can clearly see that it probably did need a spacer!

If you look closely at the picture below you can see where the pinion on the camshaft has not meshed properly and has left little marks on the end of the shaft above the pinion on the distributor. Well I assume that's what has caused it? Interestingly it worked ok for 20 odd years!! Perhaps if I put it back in with a spacer it might go twice as fast?

So that means you need a spacer under the 123; do you have one. They're very cheap; but I've succumbed and ordered the 123 to fit the 650 engine and possibly it will come with the surplus article, which you can have for free if it does. Part of the reason is that the drive pinion is pinned in the oppposite way round on the two types of distributor.

I'm sure you said that Luigi had quite a long rest over the years, and perhaps if he hadn't then you might have developed some problems.

My latest issue with the 650 is that I'm concerned that I may have the wrong replacement camshaft and I'm hoping someone can calm me with good news about it now I've completed lapping the valves and want to fit the new springs and get the head on. I'm going to make a spring compressor tomorrow.

I've ordered a lever-operated starter to fit the 650 because I'm not doing all this and going to this expense without giving Murf a taste of the high life.

There is no better way to get the engine run in than by me driving it in my normal style. Seeing as you (Tony, being such a purist with your black sunroof, which I am not ), are not going to give what would be the most trustworthy rundown of the difference between driving a 500 and 650 engine, I'm going to have to try it for myself. But I'm going to keep the 500 engine in a purpose-made crate, with all the details of what I have done to it and the mileage history etc. Temporary fixes have a habit of permanency so I want a reminder for me or an indicator if (heaven forbid) anyone in the future has to put it back to original. It most definitely will not be abandoned nor will it be for sale. Eventually the 650 is intended to go in the basket-case car.

Yes I have a spacer on the 123 currently fitted in Luigi and as you say I might have done so more serious damage if I had been running the old one piece distributor for a prolonged period of time but I am confident I have dodged that bullet.

As to the 650 swap, as mine is a very late built engine 1997, with all the electronic ignition and control unit etc. It is not as straightforward a swap as an older distributor engine would be. All I need to do is run an additional wire through the centre tunnel so I can wire the starter motor to the 850 ignition switch I bought. Mount the control unit in the same place Steve did, which is basically below the existing voltage regulator on the shelf that sticks out. I bought an old VR to gut and I am going to use that to join all the wires together for the alternator conversion. So it maintains the original look. I will get around to doing it but I have been so busy lately with work that I just haven't had a chance.

I am thinking it's probably an ideal transplant to carry out over the winter months in a nice cosy warm garage with copious amounts of tea.

I have a warm garage at the moment, or rather, a warm workshop. I built the little addition on the side using a spare pane of glass from a roof window and the remains of the clear corrugated plastic after I demolished my temporary carport. So it's realy cosy today in the sun. It's also a perfect wildlife hide and I have been distracted watching two stoats playing about in the garden.
Thwarted by awaiting valve seals and a set to repair the manifold threads, I ponced about fitting the new, old stock clutch I had, using an old input shaft for alignment, and rebuilding a 500 engine mounting with new rubbers. I also changed the studs on the crankcase for longer ones.
MAL_1992 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr
I wanted to renew the exhaust studs in the elbows. These are taken from an old 500 engine as the 126 came minus these items. One stud was really corroded so I expected it to snap, but the others looked really set for life but magically came out relatively easily.
MAL_1993 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr

After dithering for a few days over valve seals, I found that I only had about 2mm of free space in which to fit modern stem seals which are significantly bigger than that, so I used the "O"-rings supplied in the kit.
I had thrown out a huge, commercial spring compressor which had become unstable and dangerous and ended up with a very simple method for replacing them. Hence this very roughly cut piece of tube used with a big G-clamp which did the job quickly, easily and most importantly....cheaply.
MAL_2151 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr
So the head is back on and I found that solid pushrod tubes are a dream to install in comparison with the concertina ones of the 500.
MAL_2150 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr
The cowling components had already been derusted and degreased in acid. Then I brush-painted (the recommended way) them with two coats of epoxy primer. Searching my stocks of half-used paint I only had a bit of black satin but I had a good supply of "steel wheels" paint and clear-coat sealer; so that's the colour they are now. It's not original but it is pre-patinated judging by the distinct brush marks you get with epoxy.
MAL_2152 by Peter Thompson, on Flickr

Ooh a nice shiny 123 distributor, that's what I like to see!!!!

All very bling on the metal work, all you need now is to search your paint supply and find a nice neon pink for the rocker cover.

Vitesse said:

Ooh a nice shiny 123 distributor, that's what I like to see!!!!

All very bling on the metal work, all you need now is to search your paint supply and find a nice neon pink for the rocker cover.

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I do have some hot lime-green paint but (un)fortunately it's just suitable for timber.

When I look into what the 123 amounts to, there's still a lot of potential for it to go wrong. It's got a distributor cap, rotor arm, rotating shaft etc; it just doesn't have points. What have I done?:bang::bang::bang:

fiat500 said:

I do have some hot lime-green paint but (un)fortunately it's just suitable for timber.

When I look into what the 123 amounts to, there's still a lot of potential for it to go wrong. It's got a distributor cap, rotor arm, rotating shaft etc; it just doesn't have points. What have I done?:bang::bang::bang:

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I myself was dubious and took a bit of persuading, mainly from Chris selling its virtues.

Maybe I have convinced myself but I swear it massively improves the engine running. Before with the old points system it was good but on tickover it would miss the occasional beat. Now it just purrs when it is ticking over and starts really well. 123 tested it with and recommended a Bosch Blue coil combination.

I suppose it's one of those scenarios like when you leave an old job and get a new one. All the people you used to work with say "how's the new job?". You say "yeah it's really great". In reality it's s**t and you hate it. But you don't say that do you!!!!! But it's not that case with the 123!