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Technical 1970 Fiat 500 F Brakes

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Technical 1970 Fiat 500 F Brakes

Labman

Labman

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Just got my Cinquecento back on the road and my brakes are minimal at best.
I installed all new shoes, pads, cylinders and springs. I re-bled the brakes to assure there was no air in the system. Everything was looked into. But...my stopping power is horrible. What am I missing? How do I adjust the front brakes? I think that is where the issue is. :bang:
 
Last edited:
The only adjustment on the brakes is the handbrake cable. When you say you brakes are minimal are you getting a lot of pedal travel?

Did you bleed them in the correct order I.e. Furthest from the reservoir first?

Tony
 
Vitesse said:
The only adjustment on the brakes is the handbrake cable. When you say you brakes are minimal are you getting a lot of pedal travel?

Did you bleed them in the correct order I.e. Furthest from the reservoir first?

Tony
Click to expand...

I bled the brakes with a friend. I think we did them in the correct order but I will check. I can't remember for the life of me.
And yes... there is a lot of pedal travel. I'd say 3/4 of the way down is when it starts to stop.
 
I would check each brake shoes are located correctly on the pins and that the pins are of the correct diameter (9mm). Check each bleed nipple is locked off. There's got to be something drastically wrong for you to have 3/4 travel before you start to stop. After bleeding go back to each wheel, apply the brake, and make sure that wheel wont budge
 
You must have a leak or air in the system for there to that much travel. You say you have replaced the brake cylinders, I am not sure if you have changed the master cylinder?

I would check all the joints that you have undone when replacing parts to see if you have any leaks. They won't be dripping unless they are really bad and the chances are you wont see any change in the reservoir level if they are really slight.

Just by wiping you finger tip over the joint or getting a bit of tissue you may find something you can't see.

When I rebuilt my car last year I changed all the components. Originally I didn't intend to change the pipes but they were so badly corroded they wouldn't undo so I ended up changing everything. After I bled the system I found lots of tiny leaks first time around where I simply hadn't done up some of the joints tightly enough, they do need to bit nipped up quite tightly to get be leak free.
 
Vitesse said:
You must have a leak or air in the system for there to that much travel. You say you have replaced the brake cylinders, I am not sure if you have changed the master cylinder?



I would check all the joints that you have undone when replacing parts to see if you have any leaks. They won't be dripping unless they are really bad and the chances are you wont see any change in the reservoir level if they are really slight.



Just by wiping you finger tip over the joint or getting a bit of tissue you may find something you can't see.



When I rebuilt my car last year I changed all the components. Originally I didn't intend to change the pipes but they were so badly corroded they wouldn't undo so I ended up changing everything. After I bled the system I found lots of tiny leaks first time around where I simply hadn't done up some of the joints tightly enough, they do need to bit nipped up quite tightly to get be leak free.
Click to expand...


I didn't change the master cylinder. Maybe I should.
No leaks that I can see. Bone dry.



Sent from my iPhone using FIAT Forum
 
Labman said:
I didn't change the master cylinder. Maybe I should.
No leaks that I can see. Bone dry
Click to expand...

Out of interest why did you change the wheel cylinders? If they were leaking at all, it is possible that now they are OK the additional pressure may have blown a seal in the master????
 
Vitesse said:
Out of interest why did you change the wheel cylinders? If they were leaking at all, it is possible that now they are OK the additional pressure may have blown a seal in the master????
Click to expand...


Two of them were leaking so we changed all four. But even then the brakes weren't good.


Sent from my iPhone using FIAT Forum
 
Hi,
What you are experiencing is quite normal when replacing everything in the brake system- they can be quite difficult to fully bleed and it is best to pressure bleed them if possible, sometimes it is best to leave the car overnight and then have another attempt at bleeding again- often you will get more air out.
Assuming all the hydraulics are fully functional and bled then you will need to adjust the shoes.
The brakes are 'self adjusting' which means that you will need to drive the car to bring the shoes out and reduce the pedal travel.
Find a quiet area and the reverse the car backwards while stamping hard on and off the brake pedal then do the same going forwards.
This should reduce the travel- the rest will come by simply driving the car- you will find that they will adjust best after continued braking when going downhill.
As you consistently use the brakes 'harder' the pedal travel will reduce.
Hope this helps...
 
Damon500 said:
Hi,
What you are experiencing is quite normal when replacing everything in the brake system- they can be quite difficult to fully bleed and it is best to pressure bleed them if possible, sometimes it is best to leave the car overnight and then have another attempt at bleeding again- often you will get more air out.
Assuming all the hydraulics are fully functional and bled then you will need to adjust the shoes.
The brakes are 'self adjusting' which means that you will need to drive the car to bring the shoes out and reduce the pedal travel.
Find a quiet area and the reverse the car backwards while stamping hard on and off the brake pedal then do the same going forwards.
This should reduce the travel- the rest will come by simply driving the car- you will find that they will adjust best after continued braking when going downhill.
As you consistently use the brakes 'harder' the pedal travel will reduce.
Hope this helps...
Click to expand...

Thank you! I will go through all these steps and report back how I made out. Keeping fingers crossed!
 
Well I did as explained and the brakes were working much better. I guess they really needed a good self adjusting. But....after I completed all the steps outlined above, brake fluid was squirting out from a rear brake line. Two bubbles formed and one sprung a leak. The rear lines are original and have finally given up due to all the hard braking I was doing. I bet this was a big part of the problem to begin with. A soft brake line. So I just ordered two new rear lines (front were new when I purchased the car). Looking forward to getting them and my little Fiat will finally be able to stop :).
 
Not just Italians- when questioned about the lack of stopping ability of the Austin 7, Herbert Austin made the reply that 'good brakes encourage bad driving' :)
 
That makes me an excellent driver?
But I wouldn't go as far to say the austin has stopping ability. It's more like slowing down gracefully, and eventually ceasing to proceed.
 

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Heap of fun indeed (particularly with a 1600 twin cam and twin down draft webers).

But back to 500F brakes. One thing I really enjoy in the 500 is the challenge to maintain momentum, avoiding the use of brakes as much as possible. The road is much bigger than in other cars so you can go round corners and through round abouts more easily.?

Hope the new brake lines solve all of the problems and the car is back on the road soon.
 
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