As the 10 degrees static is therefore just an approximation of the perfect ignition moment and it is likely to change when the engine is rotating at running speeds, does anyone have enough experience to say how far out that 10 degrees tends to be in practise?

looigi said:

Hi Zebravanman,

No, you had it right. By setting 18 deg on your timing light and running the car at 3000RPM, you are setting the correct timing.

Setting 18 deg on the timing light makes the light flash 18 deg early, so the TDC mark on the pulley will line up with the mark on the case if the timing is correctly set. You can do the same check at idle by setting 10 deg on your light, however in my experience it is best to get it right at the higher RPM and live with whatever it turns out to be at idle.

I have a Snap-on light that does the same thing and it makes dynamic timing so very easy on cars with only a TDC mark.

124Spiderman, go and get one of these lights. Honestly, you will never look back!

Chris

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Chris,
thanks for the clarification, I guess that the important figure here is the total timing advance figure i.e. 18 degs +/- 2 Degs at 3000 rpm, as long as that is set correctly then we get what we get at tick over, I will double check tonight what it is at tick over.
As a matter of interest, is it better setting it to 16 Degs, 18 degs or 20 Degs, for best performance as the manual says 18 Degs +/- 2 or can't you tell with this car.

Andy

I just double checked the timing, I set the strobe to 18 Degs on the rotary dial, revved the engine to 3000rpm. Got the notch in the pulley to align with the arrow perfectly.

Locked off the distributor and double checked, all ok at 3000rpm. Then i let the engine tick over at approx 1000rpm and rotated the dial on the strobe light until the notch in the pulley lined up with the arrow on the casing and read off the dial on the strobe which came out to be 5 Degs on my car.

Andy

bambino said:

the rotor should be pointing toward the engine block

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Assuming thats only if you have cylinder 1 connected to the left breaker on the distributor cap? Because on mine it was on the right side.

I followed your instructions and was able to complete the static timing. Thank you for describing the procedure! it was very helpful.

I'm in the process of timing my 59 Fiat Nuova 500 Jolly. Just want to make sure that Cylinder 1 is the one closest to the rear of the car? My Glenn's Fiat manual shows Cylinder 1 as the one closest to the front of the car.

Also, for some reason, even after I loosen the clamp bolt I can't get my distributor to rotate. It seems to be stuck solid to the lower shaft. Am I missing something here? I have pulled the entire distributor out including the lower shaft. I couldn't get just the upper part to separate.

Bambino said:

This is what I do -



Cylinder 1 is the one closest to the rear of the car and when it is at the top of the compression cycle, the rotor should be pointing toward the engine block. Photo 3 shows the valve gear with the rocker cover removed. The arrow points to the rear of the car (I = intake & E = exhaust).


Hope this helps,

Chris

PS: You can get rid of the points altogether by fitting a '123 ignition'.

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Here's the diagram from my Glenns Fiat 500 manual that shows cylinder 1 as the one closest to the FRONT of the car:

I labeled my cylinders the wrong way around - sorry. The labeling convention doesn't matter as the engine is symmetrical and as long as you understand what you are doing, and I'm sure you guys do, the method is the same.

I apologise for any confusion.

Chris

Thanks Chris. Ok, yes, makes sense it doesn't matter which is 1 or 2.

Any recommendations on what to do about my "stuck" distributor shaft? How can I properly set timing if the distributor doesn't turn when the clamp is loosened? Never experienced this problem before.

Steve

Bambino said:

I labeled my cylinders the wrong way around - sorry. The labeling convention doesn't matter as the engine is symmetrical and as long as you understand what you are doing, and I'm sure you guys do, the method is the same.

I apologise for any confusion.

Chris

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A bit of gentle heat and tapping with a light hammer might free the upper part from the lower part. Both casings are alloy, so be careful.

Chris

How are you guys checking the rpms to know if you're at 3000? I'm trying set up my 1963 500D and it seems that it's too advanced, even when ticking over. I also only just realized that this thread had a second page and that the information on the first page on which cylinder is number one was incorrect, so I'm back at this afternoon.
Greetings from France!

jumpinjimmy said:

How are you guys checking the rpms to know if you're at 3000?

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I'm not sure that everyone will actually be checking the rpm of their engine. I didn't and relied on the fact that the advance isn't apparently supposed to change after reaching that level. So I checked with a strobe that I had 28 degrees of dynamic advance when the engine sounded frighteningly fast but not at top revs.
I had big learning curve on this and despte initial resistance to the concept I am now really happy with the setup.

I'm having real troubles getting my 500D to run. Sometimes it will crank and then run fine for 10 minutes then cut off then hard to start again. I think it may be a spark advance issue but now I've got conflicting information here that's put me in a twirl. If number 1 cylinder is to the front of the car (is everyone in agreement with that?) then the plug wires on my distributor cap are reversed (meaning that the plug wire on the left side of the cap has been going to the number 2 piston). Yet it cranks. After seeing the illustration from the Glenn's manual, I tried reversing them but it wouldn't crank, but that's not unusual at the moment. Also, when I did get it cranked and put the strobe light on, it was already in full advance and only turning over at the perhaps 1500rpms, with the choke on in other words. Also, I rebuilt the carb but the car is very hard to start unless you put your hand over the carburetor, so I'm thinking the choke isn't doing it's job very well. Any help available??

No 1 cylinder is at the rear of the car

I'm assuming that you know about and have set the static timing?
If so and you had the engine firing, the ignition leads are not strictly relevant at the moment.
But if the initial advance is sorted correctly and the engine goes to full advance immediately after firing and before 3000 rpm., then the chances are that you have a worn or damaged advance mechanism in the distributor.

I did the static advance and am confident that I did it correctly and when I check the timing with the strobe light, it's fully advanced at say, 12-1500rons (a full choke idle). I also noticed that when setting the static advance, to get the points to the where the are just starting to open, I have to turn the distributor almost fully to the right, which doesn't feel right. I'm in agreement that perhaps the advance counter weight springs are perhaps worn or some other issue with the advance mechanism but also wondering if the timing gear has jumped and it's now out of phase. Any ideas.
One other problem to throw up...I rebuilt the carb and cleaned it really well, including using an ultrasonic bath, and I just can't get the thing to start from cold unless I put my hand over the carb inlet, which makes me think the choke mechanism isn't working properly, however, when it does start, the idle speed is elevated as it should be and lowering the choke, lowers the idle speed as it should.

fixed all of my problems. counterweight springs worn out. Changing these fixed the timing issue. Bought a new weber carb--JUNK. Full of little bits of metal from machining or fabrication. Decided to salvage the old carb and did an ultrasonic clean which cleaned out the idle circuit. Works perfectly now. However, I did have a head scratcher of a problem that would leave me on the side of the road every time I went out. After driving for say, 5kms, and the car was good and hot, it would lose power and shut down. It was because of lack of fuel. The fuel filter was empty and little bubbles were percolating up from the fuel pump. So, I changed the fuel pump, fuel pump push rod, fuel tank sending unit. No luck! Finally, it was suggested that the engine cam that actuates the push rod was worn and not engaging the pump enough, and when the engine was hot, the problem was increased. To repair this, I removed the spacer block from the fuel pump and sand it down lightly on a FLAT surface, turning the spacer the whole time so it would be level. I only removed less than 1 mm of material. This completely resolved the issue and for the first time since I've owned the car, I can drive it around properly. I tested it first and the fuel line and filter are always full now. btw, again, this was on a 1963 Fiat 500 D.

Help with setting the timing guys, have read this thread but still not starting.


Does the oil filter need to be inserted a certain way?
No mark on my flywheel.

Any links to a comprehensive guide?


Simon

The crankshaft pulley will only fit in one place due the location of the Woodruff key that transmits the drive from the crankshaft to the crank pulley, and there is normally a little cut-out on the edge of the inner face of the pulley. The oil-filter cover will only fit in one position as the bolts are NOT equi-distant around the edge of the cover. There should be a cast mark, or a 'flat' on the outer face of the oil-pump cover to denote the timing mark which will match with the timing mark on the pulley. If there is no mark on the pulley, I would suggst that you find TDC and then make a mark on the pulley to show you TDC. Prior to checking the timing, carefully mark the timing-marks with 'tipex'--makes it much easier to pick up the marks with a timing light. Just for interest, 10deg BTDC equates to 13mm. One can only set 'static timing' with 'points' ignition.
To adjust the thickness of the oil-pump spacer block it is possible to get gaskets of differing thickness. The operating rod should extend out of the spacer plate (and gasket) 1-1.5mm at its maximum---don't forget that you will have to turn the engine over TWICE to fully check the protrusion of the operating rod as the cam-shaft turns at 1/2 engine speed.