Technical Starting problem

Currently reading:
Technical Starting problem

Dette515

New member
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
3
Points
1
My 77 fiat 124 spider is having a starting problem. I bought it as a project car. It has a hard time starting. it would rarely start. It only started 3 times out of the year. I think it might be a short somewhere. The ignition coil sometimes get power but it still wont start. The fuses are somewhat lose but no lose enough to fall out,They spin. The engine is getting zero spark. Not sure what is making it not start.
 
Well, not getting a reliable spark and at the correct times won't start the engine! ;)

Ignition system afaik is not fused, so loose fuses won't affect ignition, but might affect electric fuel pump, if fitted?

Is there any alarm/immobiliser unit fitted to your car? This can stop the sparks!

You think there may be a short? any particular reason you say this?

For the car to start you need compression, fuel and ignition.
You said the car started 3 times, so can prob. rule out compression problems.

That leaves fuel and ignition

Gasoline (petrol) 'goes off' if left lying for many months, if so, you need to drain and use some fresh fuel.

If there is no ignition, the spark plugs should be getting wet with gasoline when it fails to start.

If so, then you either don't have sparks or not at the right times.

Try pulling the king (coil) lead from the distributor cap, hold the end about 1/4 inch from a metal part of the engine (use insulated pliers to avoid risk of shock). Spin the engine over and see if you are getting regular sparks.

Come back then and maybe someone can help further. It would be helpful to know if you have electronic ignition or coil/points ignition as the test procedures are different, also when it did start, how did it start, i.e. normally, only after a lot of turning over, did it run normally and rev up or did it cut-out etc.

AL.
 
I'm using a electric fuel pump, points and When the car gets spark it starts up right away.Runs very smooth. I've had it running for 2 days then it stopped starting. I think that theirs a short because of how it it will run then it stops running out of no where. Sometimes the spark plugs are some what wet. I took them out to dry but still wont run. Is it possible for a bad ignition coil or a short in the ignition coil? Pretty sure its the original ignition coil. Any ideas?
 
It could be a faulty ignition coil, usually tested by substitution a good coil.

The coil can be tested to a certain degree by measuring the primary and secondary windings resistance but you'll need an ohmmeter to do this.
Readings should be Primary - 1.64 to 1.76 Ohms, Secondary - 7650-9350 Ohms for a Marelli coil, other makes may vary.

Iirc, if the coil is working correctly, the rev counter needle should flick slightly off it's stop as you spin the engine over on the starter.

Check the low-tension leads to the coil and distributor are secure, not frayed etc.

Check out the king lead (coil HT lead) carefully, especially both end terminals if lead is a radio suppressed type. Did you check if you are getting sparks from the king lead as I suggested.

Another way to check the coil is with the ignition on and points closed, is to flick open the points with an insulated screwdriver, you should get a big spark with the king lead held a 1/4 in. from a good ground. If you instead get a big spark across the points but no spark from the king lead, the condensor (ign. capacitor) is faulty. If the points contact faces are burned/blackened, the condensor is faulty.

You could also have a faulty distributor cap (tracking to earth, corroded/faulty connections) or rotor arm especially if the suppressed type is fitted (built-in resistor on top).

In your first post you said the coil sometimes gets power?
The coil should have power at the B+ or +ve terminal at all times with the ignition on. To rule out a wiring problem or faulty ignition switch, you could try running a cable from the +ve terminal of the battery to the +ve (or B+) terminal on the coil. This is the same as turning on the ignition. Try starting the car. If car now starts, problem is with the ignition switch contacts or wiring feeding power to the coil.

Faulty ignition coils and faulty ignition condensors usually afaik only show up as the engine heats up but not exclusively.....

Iirc, there is also a resistor? mounted on the coil, looks like a small brick red block ( (0.8 +- 0.05 Ohms), maybe this is faulty as in an open circuit? If you don't have an ohmmeter, you could temporarily connect the low tension lead from the distributor directly to the -ve (or D) coil terminal to test if this is faulty.

While it may indeed turn out to be a faulty coil, the fact that the engine did start and run ok a couple of times is a good sign that not much is wrong, it may only be a loose connection or something easily fixed when you eventually find it. So don't go 'firing the parts cannon at it'.

Good luck,

AL.
 
What can I do if theirs no spark getting to the ignition coil, can it be a short? Is their a fuse going to it?
 
What can I do if theirs no spark getting to the ignition coil, can it be a short? Is their a fuse going to it?

The spark comes from the coil/king lead, it doesn't go to the ignition coil, or to put it another way, the coil 'makes' the spark with the help of the contact breaker points in the distributor.

The coil might have a short which is why I gave you the ohmmeter readings for the coil Primary and Secondary windings so you could check them out. Alternatively, you could try a known good coil (new or s/hand).

As I also stated previously, there is afaik no fuse in the power supply to the coil.

As I said earlier you need approx. 12 volts going to the B+ (or +ve) terminal on the coil. Have you checked this with a voltmeter or even a test lamp?

Have you tried any of the tests I detailed in my previous posts?
When you have done so, post your findings and we can take it from there.

AL.
 
Back
Top