Technical legal way to remove DPF?

[trekkingnut]

Hi all, I am fed up with my Doblo DPF system peeing fuel into the oil straight after an oil /filter change and also the intermittent issue of it feeling like it is going to stall at a junction (revs drop in time with a `dnk, dnk noise` and can feel slight jolt too). This is followed by upon flooring it from the junction and a tone change is heard in engine and last time had white smoke coming from air vents in cab for brief period as well as short tail of white smoke from exhaust! - no warning lights and was going like a rocket up hill but I blame it all on the DPF system and want rid of it! Can it be done legally by reducing BHP to 105 from 120 and fitting the 105BHP exhaust system with full DPF delete on the software as the 105BHP did not have a DPF? - DVLA/Insurance would need notifying but is it a way around the issue as it does spoil my enjoyment of an otherwise great vehicle. I also have an issue with key not turning ignition in barrel as it gets stuck and have to turn off and on again - new barrel or 3 in one oil?

 

[bugsymike]

I doubt if there is a legal way as the details in the Vin. Number usually say if DPF fitted or not.
I know this was the case with my daughters 2009 VW Tiguan and my 2007 Skoda Scout, both had the same running gear but mine had the DPF and hers didn't, both confirmed by the Vin.Number.

 

[AndyRKett]

The DPF is also the catalytic converter the removal of the DPF is not legal in anyway and is an MOT fail if removed. If you have on going issues with the DPF, then you either are not driving far enough in journeys to clear the soot from the filter

 

[vexorg]

I suppose a legal route would be to remove the dpf, come up with some new emission filter, and then get the car type certified.

Or maybe petrol conversion? Or sell it and get a more modern diesel. Depends how much you love the car.

 

[trekkingnut]

The DPF is also the catalytic converter the removal of the DPF is not legal in anyway and is an MOT fail if removed. If you have on going issues with the DPF, then you either are not driving far enough in journeys to clear the soot from the filter

Thanks for reply - I have not had dpf issues as such in terms of light on/trilby hat mode or anything but i just hate it dumping fuel into the sump and it has also done some weird things with white smoke coming through air vents after caning it up a hill (always floor it to keep DPF clear). Never use it for pootling about of course. The 105 BHP 1.9 has a cat where the DPF is so I was thinking of replacing exhaust system completely - expensive perhaps but it is a camper and a nice one at that with swivel passenger seat even and a glass fibre hi top. It has not broken down on me so I cannot complain about that. Ignition key sometimes gets stuck between turning on and just before starting position engine so have to turn back and forward in barrel a couple of times so not sure if needs new barrel but other than that the DPF really bugs me but perhaps it was not the cause of the white smoke coming through air vents recently and it was something else - there was a bit of white smoke from exhaust too but not loads so I just thought DPF overfuelling engine

 

[trekkingnut]

I suppose a legal route would be to remove the dpf, come up with some new emission filter, and then get the car type certified.

Or maybe petrol conversion? Or sell it and get a more modern diesel. Depends how much you love the car.

Thanks for reply - that was my thinking as 105bhp has cat in place of DPF. Would need to check with VOSA perhaps but people replace engines all the time or remap them taking them away from manufacturers spec - as long as appropriate bodies are notified it cannot be illegal surely?

I had a Qubo Trekking that was misregistered by FIAT dealership as an Adventure van a few years ago and it was a 4 seat N1 Qubo as dictated by VIN plate code - had a battle with FIAT to get it corrected and then had insurance issue as Thatcham had to add it to their database as it did not exist as an option in the UK. I discovered 4 other vehicles like it - some had even had Qubo badges replaced by dealership with Fiorino ones - surely not legal and owners were literally uninsured from new without realising it. Mine was the only legally registered one in the end and also it did not meet its type approval as it was supposed to have a cage separating the passenger area from the boot but it was the same as a normal 5 seater just no middle seat belt - utter joke and of course had FIAT abided by the law and the type approval standards it would have been reclassed as M1 because it did not comply with its original design spec. I was on a loser being the small guy so I traded it in as the road tax was of course N1 rated!

 

[trekkingnut]

I doubt if there is a legal way as the details in the Vin. Number usually say if DPF fitted or not.
I know this was the case with my daughters 2009 VW Tiguan and my 2007 Skoda Scout, both had the same running gear but mine had the DPF and hers didn't, both confirmed by the Vin.Number.

Thanks for reply - know what you mean but just thinking engines get replaced/remapped all the time and as long as the appropriate exhaust system was fitted to match the engine (i.e 105bhp - cat exhaust instead of DPF/CAT), VOSA/DVLA/Insurance notified - hopeful would be allowed. I have seen a Doblo for sale recently which was converted from diesel to petrol so another option assuming his was done legally of course? - I love the vehicle but really hate the DPF system which just loves to kill engines. I have changed oil three times in a year because of the bleeping thing!

 

[vexorg]

Similar to this, people are arguing the case with emissions and LEZ/ULEZ,saying that the car meets the emission requirement, though never tested for euro4 since it did not exist at the time. If there was a version of your car that didn't have a DPF when the legislation came in then you might have a chance.

 

[AndyRKett]

Technically a remap falls into a grey area with emissions. Technically any remap will change the emissions as per the certificate issued under type approval at the time of manufacture and so would not be legal.

People are getting round ULEZ as companies have popped up offering to do a certificated test that can then be used to show services the car meets specs for ULEZ compliance.

Changing the engine to one that does not have a DPF does not get round the fact the car was fitted with one as standard.


As I said before if the DPF is getting routienly blocked up then there are two possible issues at play.

1 you are simply not doing enough miles to clear the DPF and so soot just builds up till it clogs.
2 there is some other fault with the engine causing it to produce too much soot and clock the filter.

I have recently read one issue is a EGR valve that is not closing properly can cause excess soot as exhaust is being constantly cycled into the combustion process. if point 1 does not apply to you then that is something you could look at.

If point 1 does apply to you then its probably best to buy a car without a DPF or a petrol car that won't have this problem.

people have the DPF "deleted" which is a fancy way of saying they map it out on a remap of the car's computers, but the issue with this is that the filter remains, still gets clogged and will ultimately choke the engine with restricted exhaust.

you can also have the EGR deleted in the code, but again if it is not closing properly then the soot will still build up.

You can bash the insides out of the DPF but then you have no catalytic convertor either and so you'll probably fail the next MOT on emissions.

The constant cycling of the EGR regen is going to wash the oil away from the piston bores (as you said the oil is getting full of diesel) and you'll end up with all manor of issues relating to bore score or piston slap.

Basically. better to fix the problem, what you're proposing amounts to plastering over the cracks.

 

[chris3234]

Technically a remap falls into a grey area with emissions. Technically any remap will change the emissions as per the certificate issued under type approval at the time of manufacture and so would not be legal.

People are getting round ULEZ as companies have popped up offering to do a certificated test that can then be used to show services the car meets specs for ULEZ compliance.

Changing the engine to one that does not have a DPF does not get round the fact the car was fitted with one as standard.


As I said before if the DPF is getting routienly blocked up then there are two possible issues at play.

1 you are simply not doing enough miles to clear the DPF and so soot just builds up till it clogs.
2 there is some other fault with the engine causing it to produce too much soot and clock the filter.

I have recently read one issue is a EGR valve that is not closing properly can cause excess soot as exhaust is being constantly cycled into the combustion process. if point 1 does not apply to you then that is something you could look at.

If point 1 does apply to you then its probably best to buy a car without a DPF or a petrol car that won't have this problem.

people have the DPF "deleted" which is a fancy way of saying they map it out on a remap of the car's computers, but the issue with this is that the filter remains, still gets clogged and will ultimately choke the engine with restricted exhaust.

you can also have the EGR deleted in the code, but again if it is not closing properly then the soot will still build up.

You can bash the insides out of the DPF but then you have no catalytic convertor either and so you'll probably fail the next MOT on emissions.

The constant cycling of the EGR regen is going to wash the oil away from the piston bores (as you said the oil is getting full of diesel) and you'll end up with all manor of issues relating to bore score or piston slap.

Basically. better to fix the problem, what you're proposing amounts to plastering over the cracks.

Diesels unlikely to fail a smoke test without a cat

But still obviously not road legal without a cat

 

[AndyRKett]

Diesels unlikely to fail a smoke test without a cat

But still obviously not road legal without a cat

I’m pretty sure on anything registered after 2008 there are now more than just a smoke test. There is a restriction on any visible smoke and limits on the emissions permitted depending on year and some other factors.

A car fitted with a DPF is likely to be new enough to fall under these rules and with a soot problem it’s likely that it would smoke with the DPF removed. I think things moved on a lot from the old diesel smoke test.

 

[chris3234]

I’m pretty sure on anything registered after 2008 there are now more than just a smoke test. There is a restriction on any visible smoke and limits on the emissions permitted depending on year and some other factors.

A car fitted with a DPF is likely to be new enough to fall under these rules and with a soot problem it’s likely that it would smoke with the DPF removed. I think things moved on a lot from the old diesel smoke test.

It's still just a smoke test they don't test for other pollution
But true there shouldn't be visible smoke but if running correctly there shouldn't be much smoke even with the dpf removed

 

[trekkingnut]

Technically a remap falls into a grey area with emissions. Technically any remap will change the emissions as per the certificate issued under type approval at the time of manufacture and so would not be legal.

People are getting round ULEZ as companies have popped up offering to do a certificated test that can then be used to show services the car meets specs for ULEZ compliance.

Changing the engine to one that does not have a DPF does not get round the fact the car was fitted with one as standard.


As I said before if the DPF is getting routienly blocked up then there are two possible issues at play.

1 you are simply not doing enough miles to clear the DPF and so soot just builds up till it clogs.
2 there is some other fault with the engine causing it to produce too much soot and clock the filter.

I have recently read one issue is a EGR valve that is not closing properly can cause excess soot as exhaust is being constantly cycled into the combustion process. if point 1 does not apply to you then that is something you could look at.

If point 1 does apply to you then its probably best to buy a car without a DPF or a petrol car that won't have this problem.

people have the DPF "deleted" which is a fancy way of saying they map it out on a remap of the car's computers, but the issue with this is that the filter remains, still gets clogged and will ultimately choke the engine with restricted exhaust.

you can also have the EGR deleted in the code, but again if it is not closing properly then the soot will still build up.

You can bash the insides out of the DPF but then you have no catalytic convertor either and so you'll probably fail the next MOT on emissions.

The constant cycling of the EGR regen is going to wash the oil away from the piston bores (as you said the oil is getting full of diesel) and you'll end up with all manor of issues relating to bore score or piston slap.

Basically. better to fix the problem, what you're proposing amounts to plastering over the cracks.

Thanks for reply but neither point one or two apply to what is happening in as much as I am not getting DPF clogged warnings or belching black smoke. It is a white smoke issue caused by overfueling and does not happen all the time but I blame it on the DPF system as it does overfuel to clean DPF from what I understand. I have never seen any messages or warning lights telling me the DPF is doing anything except for when I first got it and it did a regen after a sdervice and then told me oil was degraded and need changing within 10 miles of having the service! - The garage reset the DPF counter and had no messages since then but the white smoke issue if it is fuel means that it must also be going into sump. It is an old 2006 Doblo so early system and it is light years apart from my Qubo system. I will be taking it to a diesel specialist to see if injector seals/egr are causing it but it goes like a rocket so DPF itself can`t be clogged. Engine is in good order apart from this hence my desire to rid it of the DPF system.

 

[vexorg]

I'd say the only options are a petrol or more modern diesel as they don't seem to suffer from dpf in the same way as older ones.

 

[bugsymike]

Some people fit an EGR blanking plate which on earlier vehicles doesn't trigger an error code, but obviously that will not stop the Regen side of the problem.

 

[AndyRKett]

Thanks for reply but neither point one or two apply to what is happening in as much as I am not getting DPF clogged warnings or belching black smoke. It is a white smoke issue caused by overfueling and does not happen all the time but I blame it on the DPF system as it does overfuel to clean DPF from what I understand. I have never seen any messages or warning lights telling me the DPF is doing anything except for when I first got it and it did a regen after a sdervice and then told me oil was degraded and need changing within 10 miles of having the service! - The garage reset the DPF counter and had no messages since then but the white smoke issue if it is fuel means that it must also be going into sump. It is an old 2006 Doblo so early system and it is light years apart from my Qubo system. I will be taking it to a diesel specialist to see if injector seals/egr are causing it but it goes like a rocket so DPF itself can`t be clogged. Engine is in good order apart from this hence my desire to rid it of the DPF system.

If the DPF is cleaning, then the DPF regen light would come on. If the car is building up fuel in the oil without the regen light coming on that suggests a different problem.

What you’ve said above is somewhat different to what you were saying at the start of this thread where you were reporting running problems and blaming everything on the DPF system, but now it seems the car isn't doing regens, and therefore should not be pouring fuel into the engine.

For the moment I would stop looking at the DPF system and concentrate on the problem.

You have white smoke, poor idle and contaminated oil from something......

Head gasket? EGR cooler? injector problem, High pressure pump issue.
Getting hung up on the DPF I think you are missing the actual problem.

 

[AndyRKett]

Some people fit an EGR blanking plate which on earlier vehicles doesn't trigger an error code, but obviously that will not stop the Regen side of the problem.

later options had a restrictor plate which was a blanking plate with a much smaller hole in it. This would let some gasses through so as not to trigger a warning light but still massively restricted the amount of exhaust gas being recirculated.

 

[bugsymike]

later options had a restrictor plate which was a blanking plate with a much smaller hole in it. This would let some gasses through so as not to trigger a warning light but still massively restricted the amount of exhaust gas being recirculated.

On the 05 1.9 Doblo a full blanking plate worked , but on a 2006 1.3 Multijet Grande Punto ever bigger holes were required to increase the time before error code popped up. Both were non DPF.

 

[Twinturborob]

DPF's can be had for £100, a reset will cost you a MES licence key.

The Cat is a totaly different part.

Rob

 

[trekkingnut]

If the DPF is cleaning, then the DPF regen light would come on. If the car is building up fuel in the oil without the regen light coming on that suggests a different problem.

What you’ve said above is somewhat different to what you were saying at the start of this thread where you were reporting running problems and blaming everything on the DPF system, but now it seems the car isn't doing regens, and therefore should not be pouring fuel into the engine.

For the moment I would stop looking at the DPF system and concentrate on the problem.

You have white smoke, poor idle and contaminated oil from something......

Head gasket? EGR cooler? injector problem, High pressure pump issue.
Getting hung up on the DPF I think you are missing the actual problem.

Hi, thanks for reply - I can certainly confirm there have been no lights or messages and I took it to the garage who think it may be EGR issue and/or injector seals possibly and also said oil is ok so the white smoke is sounding like unburnt fuel but not from DPF. It also drives too well for anything to be clogged - It literally takes off and leaves other vehicles in the dust which is the good thing about it. I do think sadly that I will sell it though as I need a camper without a DPF that I can also use around town and I admit that I have been hung up about it. I am no mechanic and have no interest in doing things myself to the engine so just pay the big bills and take it to those that are qualified. good time of year to sell it actually and have already eyed up another van over weekend - with no dpf and same engine as my Qubo.