Technical Help Head gasket gone?? 2nd opinions wanted.

[The Panda Nut]

Head gasket failure?
Daffo overheated and dumped all the water. Daughter then drove it another mile but in heavy traffic to get to work so 5.30 this morning I recovered it home. Ive just spent all morning on it.

It starts and runs sweetly as ever
4 error codes in the memory
Igintion failure
Misfire cyl 2 (Fatal)
Misfire cyl 3 (Fatal)
Break pedal switch low voltage
Still gulping water after an hour of running, but this is probably just air locks.
Drops of water but not steam coming out of the tail pipe which is now wet and black not its usual dry pale grey.
Fan works for the air con but it does not get hot enough for them to run even revving the thing stationary.
Fans operate normally via MES

Conclusiuon the head gasket is going. Does anyone disagree?

Should I talke it immediately and Px for something newer with less miles or break it up for spares. Its got brand new calipers on the front

I believe it also needs new lower arms on the front end, so I was going to do front springs arms top mounts as a job lot adn the steering rack is worn and I want it replaced. My gut is saying call a halt and get it gone as this lot will be I guess H/g £500 for the job at local garage, then £250 for suspension and the rack will still be needed before too long.

If I can chuck it in px and get £1500 thats a budget before shelling out of c £2250 . Ive spotted a low miles Easy 319 in Stockport that might do the job and if Im not mistaken an ask if £1650! Im tempted to set off now. What does anyone else think?

 

[bugsymike]

You may be able to confirm head gasket when engine warm and rad cap "carefully" removed, then have someone hold engine revs steady around 2000rpm, fill water to brim and watch for air/combustion bubbles, these can smell of exhaust gas to confirm.
You may find as revs dropped to idle again water will either over flow or a lot more air gush out, so keep head away!
Other tests involve compressed air through adaptor in plug hole doing a leak test, or one of those sniffers to detect the gas.
I always liked the leak test as more conclusive on a certain cylinder, but takes longer.
P/ex may not be generous if they suspect an issue, even if they are selling it out to the trade the opportunity to increase their profit margin is hard to avoid.

 

[Twotone2]

You may be able to confirm head gasket when engine warm and rad cap "carefully" removed, then have someone hold engine revs steady around 2000rpm, fill water to brim and watch for air/combustion bubbles, these can smell of exhaust gas to confirm.
You may find as revs dropped to idle again water will either over flow or a lot more air gush out, so keep head away!
Other tests involve compressed air through adaptor in plug hole doing a leak test, or one of those sniffers to detect the gas.
I always liked the leak test as more conclusive on a certain cylinder, but takes longer.
P/ex may not be generous if they suspect an issue, even if they are selling it out to the trade the opportunity to increase their profit margin is hard to avoid.

I traded in a Ford Fiesta Zetec 2019 plate last year for the Panda 4x4 2023, reason for the trade in was that the Ford had to have the clutch replaced at 13,000 miles last June at a cost of £440 so I didn't want to have the expense of another clutch replacement (no confidence in the car after that) plus the balloon payment of £5500 was due last November so we traded it in but the dealer said he'd have taken it with the dodgy clutch and reduced the trade in value.

 

[The Panda Nut]

You may be able to confirm head gasket when engine warm and rad cap "carefully" removed, then have someone hold engine revs steady around 2000rpm, fill water to brim and watch for air/combustion bubbles, these can smell of exhaust gas to confirm.
You may find as revs dropped to idle again water will either over flow or a lot more air gush out, so keep head away!
Other tests involve compressed air through adaptor in plug hole doing a leak test, or one of those sniffers to detect the gas.
I always liked the leak test as more conclusive on a certain cylinder, but takes longer.
P/ex may not be generous if they suspect an issue, even if they are selling it out to the trade the opportunity to increase their profit margin is hard to avoid.

Ive checked the pressure by hand and by removing the cap and there does not appear to be excess / indeed any pressure in the rad, but the coolant does look gassy, not as clear as I would expect. The wet exhaust pipe has me worried and do the handful of error codes. The daft thing is its running really sweetly. What I dont want is to go from a sweet running thing to a definitely blown HG. As the value will go through the floor. As of now it appears normal apart from the wet exhaust. I have been emptying 200cc a week of water from the catch can, which seems a lot and has had me suspicious for a while.

Blasted car is running at normal temperature in the drive so the fans have not been needed. I suspect fro some reason the fan did not work yesterday when the car was stuck on teh by pass for an hour due to an accident. May be I should ask my local man to look at the car and pressure check and give an opinion. Probably £40 for an hour, but well spent. Thanks for your input much appreciated.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I traded in a Ford Fiesta Zetec 2019 plate last year for the Panda 4x4 2023, reason for the trade in was that the Ford had to have the clutch replaced at 13,000 miles last June at a cost of £440 so I didn't want to have the expense of another clutch replacement (no confidence in the car after that) plus the balloon payment of £5500 was due last November so we traded it in but the dealer said he'd have taken it with the dodgy clutch and reduced the trade in value.

As its my daughters car I need it to be 100%, so thats influencing me heavily in my rush to resolve. We can afford to get one a bit newer but am expecting to complete on her new house in a few weeks so money is at a premium right now, and reliability will be even more important when she no longer lives at home. Normally if the car is playing up or in service she uses my missus's car and that wont be so easy just to use an alternative.

 

[vexorg]

Conclusiuon the head gasket is going. Does anyone disagree?

Bleed it, get it up to temp and pressurised and check for leaks.
Check the thermostat and waterpump work ok.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Bleed it, get it up to temp and pressurised and check for leaks.
Check the thermostat and waterpump work ok.

Water pump is pretty new as cambelt and pump just done. When I remove the bleed screw and rev it it spurts nearly 2 feet upwards so I think good. The stat is newish but I am wondering if the temp snesor has packed up and maybe the fans didnt come on when required. I may just redo the stat as its a cheap possible fix.

I will ask Derek at NRG to test and give opinion, then change the stat if there is nothing else showing. Im thinking its maybe gone between cyl 2 and 3 so no much showing except a few drops of water in the exhaust. I will report back on the findings. I expect it will be a week before I can get it booked in.

 

[AndyRKett]

Water pump is pretty new as cambelt and pump just done. When I remove the bleed screw and rev it it spurts nearly 2 feet upwards so I think good. The stat is newish but I am wondering if the temp snesor has packed up and maybe the fans didnt come on when required. I may just redo the stat as its a cheap possible fix.

I will ask Derek at NRG to test and give opinion, then change the stat if there is nothing else showing. Im thinking its maybe gone between cyl 2 and 3 so no much showing except a few drops of water in the exhaust. I will report back on the findings. I expect it will be a week before I can get it booked in.

I'm happy to lend you my compression tester if you want?

 

[The Panda Nut]

I'm happy to lend you my compression tester if you want?

Thanks for the kind offer. I do have one somewhere. I suppose I shall have to get too it. I had not thought of that as a next step. Duh.

 

[vexorg]

Going between cyl 2 and 3 wouldn't usually affect the water ways

 

[The Panda Nut]

Going between cyl 2 and 3 wouldn't usually affect the water ways

That useful. Its all a bit odd. I will have to take it for a drive and get it warm. Maybe this time we escaped as its all sounding normalagain. Just the we exhaust and thoses error messages. with luck we may have time to round up a worthy replacement. There are loads of good Pops but few have aircon. The Lounge's are much more pricy and Easys are rare beasts. I really wany another 2 to 3 yers out of this car and then it wont owe much, but if its unreliable its got to be sorted one way or another.

 

[varesecrazy]

That useful. Its all a bit odd. I will have to take it for a drive and get it warm. Maybe this time we escaped as its all sounding normalagain. Just the we exhaust and thoses error messages. with luck we may have time to round up a worthy replacement. There are loads of good Pops but few have aircon. The Lounge's are much more pricy and Easys are rare beasts. I really wany another 2 to 3 yers out of this car and then it wont owe much, but if its unreliable its got to be sorted one way or another.

Maybe save yourself £40..

Pull all 4 x sparkplugs

Line them in order

Anything Clean /RUSTY : NOT GOOD

My old 1.1 blew 2 HG's in swift succession (failed matrix losing coolant)

The plugs were "Steam Cleaned" and had hints of rust


Cheap and easy Diagnostic tool

The car was great after sorting that

 

[The Panda Nut]

Maybe save yourself £40..

Pull all 4 x sparkplugs

Line them in order

Anything Clean /RUSTY : NOT GOOD

My old 1.1 blew 2 HG's in swift succession (failed matrix losing coolant)

The plugs were "Steam Cleaned" and had hints of rust


Cheap and easy Diagnostic tool

The car was great after sorting that

If it ever stops rainng I shall do just that. Im moving towards doing the head myself if required. Ive lost my nerve a lot these days. Having the same trouble with relatively simple jobs on the burgeoning housing front too, Maybe I should buy her a Panda 1.1 without the camshaft gubbins and I wouldnt hesitate. I will pull the plugs and do a compression test as well and see what it suggests. Thanks for the suggestion / push. On the basis with cars that its better the devil you know fixing and keeping a car of this age and value must be the sensible way.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Most of the day trying to overbear on daffo hoping he will submit to my stronger will. No kinchance. Ecu full of codes of doom. So tested compressions if I did it right. Had to mod a pair of pliers to get the bugger bach off no2. Ended up grinding the compression gauge adapter so I can undo with a 17mm socket. Lifw was easier afterwards.

No 1 8.4 bar
Nos 2 & 3 9.9 bar
No 4 8.9ģ bar
Plugs all look normal if a bit white. I decided not to change them in case head gasket is going.
Cleaned the Vvt actuator and the manifoldg so probably cleaned the Map sensor too, and the throttle body.

Results : Eml on... It was flasing.

Decided the faults related to compression tests. So cleared faults.
Started the car and its running as sweetly as it could ever do.... Really sweet and smooth.

Test drive with mes watching temps and pressures. All looks normal.

Parked it up for work tonight, but sprang round on it when it thought I had finished. and told it its b Italian attitudes will get it scrapped and gave it a formal British Warning!
While I was there I removed scuttle cover... looking for lost torx tool. Retaped the wiring harness where the entire covering had gone, cleaned the scuttle and removed and cleared duckbills. Fitted the scuttle back properly (after winscreen people) that looks better.

Im suspicious of the head but rad pressure entirely normal looking certainly not excessive. Coolant looks normal, oil looks normal. Fans working properly. SO IM NO WISER WHY IT OVERHEATED.
considering looking for temperature sensor and fan ballast resistor.
I think Daffo is at **** at the moment
Bloody torx tol finally appeared back in my tool chest. The garage elfs will die if I catch them. It wast there earlier. Another 45 minutes wasted finding the wiper nutcover Idropped on tge gravel drive. Im done in.

 

[varesecrazy]

From experience..
Check under heater matrix for coolant

Low coolant level will bring on Rapid heating,

 

[The Panda Nut]

From experience..
Check under heater matrix for coolant

Low coolant level will bring on Rapid heating,

Will do. Thanks

 

[Yolanda]

K Seal is renowned for fixing head gaskets, I've read somewhere of a boat engine that's still going strong after about 5 years where it was used.
When I first got my car the radiator had a leak ( It's in one of my earlier post's) So I used a K Seal to get me by whilst I sourced a new rad. That was 3 years ago and still no leak. I've had no problems with the cooling system over this time. I've changed the thermostat due to the common fault with them and regularly check the water level and all is well. Years ago K Seal had a a bit of a bad name for gungeing things up, but that's in the past. It's worth a try in your case I think.

 

[koalar]

No 1 8.4 bar
Nos 2 & 3 9.9 bar
No 4 8.9ģ bar

Should be around 15 bar, there way down, my 2010 1.2 is 220 psi

Does depend on battery condition

I have no luck with the tubes, I just push down hard with the rubber cone attached

Long way from calling a head gasket yet

Whether to repair is always a compromise

VVT so post 2009 and low road tax

Head gasket isn't difficult, if you done one before it's about an hour

To check the heater matrix just peel the carpet back from the passenger side, look at the joint between the black plastic and the chassis tunnel, if it's leaking even a tiny bit it obvious here


Core plugs are a pain, there's one behind the timing cover and one behind the gearbox that leak out the bottom and several across the back, the one behind the oil tube has poor access. If any of the rear ones are leaking it's pretty obvious with a torch as it will be wet inside the lip

Fingers crossed it's just a radiator or loose pipe

 

[koalar]

Undo the bleed screw, and top the coolant up, keep going until the coolant coming out of the bleed screw is bubble free

Start the engine still with the cap and bleed screw still off, add some more coolant until it's level with the top of the bleed screw

An occasional bubble is fine
A constant stream of bubbles isn't


Do not rev the engine with the bleed screw off, it will shoot a fountain of hot coolant up in the air,

 

[The Panda Nut]

The car is back running OK. It still goes well but the uneven is compression a worry as it may be either worn out from some previous owner abuse or bad rings. It just runs so sweetly though Im wondering. I think I have twopossiblr replacements in mind. I tried a 17K loung today 2013 but they want 6 grand and I think even though the car feels like its not run in yet and drives well its to much. There is another 17k one I shall see tomorrow its an easy and also looks good at £5500 its a 2016 and there is a 2014 easy at £4500 with 27K. I went over to see it two days ago but they had disappeared no explanation or apology so not sure if I could be bothered with them. I shall probably have to sort Daffo and then sell it though as px value is so little it would fetch more as spares. Watch this space.